jffielde Posted October 24, 2013 Share #1 Posted October 24, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) On the fence “upgrading” your M9/-P to the M240? I was, too. That’s why I thought others might find my impressions useful. I am not a professional, but I take the hobby seriously. I’m not much of a pixel peeper, but I do check new gear in a variety of ways to ensure that it performs as it should, that I have a good copy, and that I like the way the new gear works and renders images. I have never been so torn over a gear “upgrade” as this one. In fact, I canceled my order for the M240 three times before I let the order ride! I think the biases are rampant in upgrading anything: On the one hand, people like myself just paid $7K for a new camera they want to believe works better than their old one, else that wasn’t a very good use of money. On the other hand, people who cannot get or justify the purchase of the new camera want to believe it doesn’t matter because the old gear is just as good – just different – and they just don’t make ‘em like they used to. For what it’s worth, I thought the M9-P was the best camera I’d ever owned, but it was incomplete. It wasn’t satisfactory indoors for me, not only because the images were often too noisy, but because the color fell apart so early in the ISO range. I know there are thousands of Leica photographers who take far better pictures than I do who disagree (many of whom shoot at ISO640 and push!), but I worked around this indoor limitation by purchasing a Monochrom. The Monochrom became and is still today my favorite camera of all time, but it, too, is incomplete (no color!). I got the M240 a week ago, and I am much happier than I expected. The nominal increase in maximum native ISO from 2500 to 3200 was pathetic, and that was my biggest gripe with the M9-P. From the trickle of early photos on the internet (still surprisingly few), IQ at base ISO seemed about the same with worse white balance from the M240. Operation seemed universally improved, but you don’t pay $7K for better menus, screen and quieter shutter (to be honest, I might have paid $1,500 for a quieter shutter!). In short, my expectations were modest. Now that I’ve shot the M240 and M9-P for a couple of weeks alongside each other, I couldn’t be happier with the upgrade, and I’m selling my M9-P. All of the operation is smoother, quieter and faster – exactly as one would expect. At base ISO, the M240 is about the equal of the M9 – maybe even a touch better because of the dynamic range / file malleability improvement. For my taste, the white balance is a wash (both firmware versions are most up-to-date, and both miss in all sorts of ways often enough), the level of detail / resolution looks like a tie. The dynamic range and malleability of the files is noticeably improved in M240. I frankly expected to see the loss of “pop,” crispness, or detail from the M240, but I can’t see it. The M240 has lost nothing that I can detect from the brilliant sensor of the M9, which I still think is bested by no one. Now for the really good news: The M240 is all I need for indoor shooting. The camera's high-ISO performance is dramatically improved, and it is a complete camera for my non-action use. The levels of noise and accuracy of colors are good even at ISO3200. For my use, ISO3200 on the M240 is like ISO640 on the M9, because that’s the point after which the color / noise began to take a toll on the image (for my own threshold of quality). Essentially, the M240 provided all the improvement I needed, and I was surprised to get it. I have detected no banding at these settings, even though I push the files around a bit – but I haven’t been looking for it either. Essentially, my test is: if I don’t see it, I don’t care! I did shoot the camera at ISO 4000-6400 (and I did see it, and I did care). Finally, I find magnification useful for perfect focusing, and I find focus peaking not terribly useful. I haven’t shot a movie (even unintentionally!), and probably never will. I didn't detect the slightly increased weight or larger size of the M240, but I can see it side-by-side. I wouldn't want to let the size creep larger still in the next generation, or it would start to impact one of the reasons I've favored the Leica system. Hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 Hi jffielde, Take a look here Impressions of New M240 by M9-P User. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
AlanJW Posted October 25, 2013 Share #2 Posted October 25, 2013 Glad that you like your new M. For me sorry to say this will be the first M Leica that I won't be buying. The reason is simply that all it's extra features are to me at least just marketing fluff. The M9/M9-P are both in my opinion as perfect as a Leica rangefinder is likely to get. I have zero interest in the Video features of the M and even less interest in the live view implementation. I'm not saying that there is no use for these but on a Leica M - sorry no way! The high ISO capability is also much overrated as it's quite possible to shoot everything easily at 400 ISO with great results on the M9. I just don't understand the obsession with high ISO's - in the good old film days TRI-X at 400 was always more than adequate so why now that we have digital is it essential to have a camera that will shoot at mega high ISO?? If you need to shoot in low light then just hold your breath and shoot at a slower speed or open up the lens - not hard on a Leica rangefinder camera:) Does the fact that you disagree invalidate the OP's opinion? Is there a right or wrong other than on an individual basis? You're happy not having a M(240) and the OP is very happy having one. I am happy having one too, but that doesn't mean you should buy one and I won't try to persuade you otherwise. So why should you try to persuade the OP (or me) that we made a mistake just because it is not what you would do? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannybuoy Posted October 25, 2013 Share #3 Posted October 25, 2013 I concur with everything the OP said. Exactly my experience and feelings. Moving from an M9 to an M was a bit of a day and night experience. Fondly familiar yet far superior in so many ways. It most certainly isn't "marketing" BS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woorob Posted October 25, 2013 Share #4 Posted October 25, 2013 My views mirror the OP's and dannybuoy's exactly. I too sold my M9-P after receiving the M -- until then the M9-P was the best camera I had ever owned. I love the images with the M and when using a ColorChecker Passport, the color calibration is dead on. I printed some high res 8 x 10s today on my Epson R2000 and they are stunning when printed from Photoshop using Hahnemuhle paper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 25, 2013 Share #5 Posted October 25, 2013 My views mirror the OP's and dannybuoy's exactly. I too sold my M9-P after receiving the M -- until then the M9-P was the best camera I had ever owned. I love the images with the M and when using a ColorChecker Passport, the color calibration is dead on. I printed some high res 8 x 10s today on my Epson R2000 and they are stunning when printed from Photoshop using Hahnemuhle paper. Must say, I kept one M9(P) while I tried out the M240, fearful it would be a mistake to let it go so quickly. It hasn't had a lens mounted on it since the day of arrival. Think I'll let that one go now too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted October 26, 2013 Share #6 Posted October 26, 2013 I didn't mention that too kept my M9 until I had the M(240). Good thing because of the wait, but after using the M(240) I would not want to go back to the M9 and I sold it. I also did a profile with a Colorcheck Passport and the colors are just fine. The improvement in the shutter sound reminds me every time I click off a frame what a difference there is. Instead of screech, whizz, plonk, it is just a little snick. Is it perfect? Nope, but I have been at this for 54 years and I haven't found a perfect camera yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
efreed2754 Posted October 26, 2013 Share #7 Posted October 26, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Also went from M9P to an M and have not looked back. M9P goes on sale tomorrow with 0 actuations! Quieter shutter, better ISO and better rangefinder are not fluff. And once the R M Adapter comes in, will enjoy using 100 APO for close ups and telephoto with 2X APO instead of bringing an extra camera. Bigger battery, no need for finder for 18 and true lossless compresion add to the ledger. IMHO these are significant so voted with pocketbook and have not used M9P since.... Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted October 26, 2013 Share #8 Posted October 26, 2013 My M9-P will be for sale next week. Best looking digital Leica ever made in my opinion but the m240 is a superior camera. The EVF and ability to use all types of lenses alone makes the jump very worthwhile (for me). The higher ISO is the clincher. And it seems that the Chrome M9-P has held its value better than all previous digital M's- so the cost of the upgrade will likely be around 1500 dollars only- not at all bad for a new battery, new LR license, new 2 year warranty... and new camera with a host of new features Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 26, 2013 Share #9 Posted October 26, 2013 Like most I have kept my last M9P until now. Sent it in to Leica for its last check up before warranty expires and then it will go up for sale once back with me. I just love using my many R lenses on the M240 and of course M lenses too. I am at ease with the EVF when needed so now the lump does not bother me at all. I do not leave home without an EVF in my bag. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anupmc Posted October 26, 2013 Share #10 Posted October 26, 2013 Ditto.... Just went through pretty much the same thought process and acquired an M; very happy with it so far... Some useability quirks, but gladly none that really take away from the end results ... (No plans to sell my 9P yet though, hard to part with such a classic) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albireo_double Posted October 26, 2013 Share #11 Posted October 26, 2013 I too sold my M9P after less than a month of owning the M and I generally agree with what the OP has written, especially after the recent firmware update for the M that improved the colours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted October 26, 2013 Share #12 Posted October 26, 2013 Essentially, my test is: if I don’t see it, I don’t care! This needs stamping in large letters all over most of the posts in this forum........ Glad you have not been disappointed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hx911 Posted October 26, 2013 Share #13 Posted October 26, 2013 as I just committed to getting a new M (240), and trading in my M9. All my thoughts and worries pretty much addressed here, and I love the conclusions. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica lux Posted October 26, 2013 Share #14 Posted October 26, 2013 Fantastic report and replys, thanks to you and all previous M9 (-P) owner for sharing this. I got sick of this forum in the last few months where M9 owners are bashing the new M, even they've never used it before! Is it jealousy? The fear of something new? I don't know.. The new M is my first Leica. I can finally shoot with a RF in a body which is more or less state of the art these days. I absolutely love it. Very refreshing thread! Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted October 26, 2013 Share #15 Posted October 26, 2013 I totally agree with the OP. I've used a M9-P and owned a MM for almost a year. The MM is now sold. And I'm much happier with my M240 - even for B&W work. And it does excellent color as well. The usability is much improved, the rangefinder is spot-on and perfectly calibrated out of the box, the silent shutter is great, the batterylife is great, the auto-zoom-to-focus magnification in LV or with the EVF works great and I actually love using the EVF while shooting in very dimly lit or dark environments. It helps A LOT! All in all, a much better camera in every way possible than the old M platform from my experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted October 26, 2013 Share #16 Posted October 26, 2013 I totally agree with the OP. I've used a M9-P and owned a MM for almost a year. The MM is now sold. And I'm much happier with my M240 - even for B&W work. And it does excellent color as well. The usability is much improved, the rangefinder is spot-on and perfectly calibrated out of the box, the silent shutter is great, the batterylife is great, the auto-zoom-to-focus magnification in LV or with the EVF works great and I actually love using the EVF while shooting in very dimly lit or dark environments. It helps A LOT! All in all, a much better camera in every way possible than the old M platform from my experience. Glad to read all the positive reactions. I tried a demo model at a dealer yesterday and we agreed a deal to part-ex my three-year old black M9 for a new M. Just have to wait for one to arrive now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r7photo Posted October 26, 2013 Share #17 Posted October 26, 2013 I sold my beloved chrome M9p before ordering M240, new m is better, in every way Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted October 26, 2013 Share #18 Posted October 26, 2013 ........The M9/M9-P are both in my opinion as perfect as a Leica rangefinder is likely to get.................. Except that the rangefinder in the M is better than in the M9. It's easy to dismiss the M because it has more "features", but that is a very simplistic approach which overlooks the fundamental qualities of the camera. I find it helps me make better looking photos more often, and that's what it's all about. Having used both extensively, I can't think of a single situation in which I would prefer the M9 over the M, but many where the M is the better choice for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renatus Posted October 26, 2013 Share #19 Posted October 26, 2013 Thank you. My 240 arrived with RF out of alignment, presently it's back in Solms. That has coloured my view of it compared to my perfect 9 P. But it has taught me that the RF is better for focussing than LV on screen or EVF. Having to refer to LV in all situations was a pain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted October 26, 2013 Share #20 Posted October 26, 2013 well... yes- I failed to mention- my M240 is also in Solms. The Self timer fired randomly and a few other issues. It hardly used it for 20 days before I had to send it back. So it is not all roses I am afraid. As far as I can say at this time- for me personally-: the machine is on probation... It seems to me that many M240 have had to go back to Solms for one reason or another- and I cannot help thinking there is something unfinished about the camera... we shall see- I hope I am wrong. as to the absurd idea that the new features are 'fluff'- it is just laughable and absurd. The many new features enable one to take many types of images, and use the camera in many ways- that were simply impossible with the previous incarnation. It is such an improvement in so many diverse areas of potential application for the camera that it cannot be overstated. From M9- to M is a revolutionary step. having said all that: the new Sony A7 certainly makes my vainest 'want to think I have the best' part worried. Took a lot of gloss of the Leica cache- and that's for sure Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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