What do you want in the next digital M?

[algrove]

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I have decided I do not want another M. Too much drama with this one for me.

[pico]

Finally, they should open-source the firmware (maybe they have, I'm new to Leica; is the source available for download?).

 

The firmware is not open source. We probably have a few people who could decompile it, but that would be against the ULA.

 

That would make not having a proper user manual unimportant.

 

Presuming you can read machine code.

[JimKasson]

OK, here's a serious proposal for a lean-and-mean Mx.

 

A stripped-down M-series Leica | The Last Word

 

If the whole thing is too radical, at least consider direct access to exposure compensation:

 

 

• The shutter speed dial no longer has positions for shutter speeds of 1 second and longer. Instead, there is a position labeled “L”. (for long) When the shutter speed dial is set in that position, the shutter speed can be set from 1 second to 300 seconds in half-stop intervals with the thumbwheel. The readout is in the LED finder display.
  
• With the extra real estate on the shutter speed dial obtained by dropping shutter speeds of one second or longer, make the A setting have five positions. The middle one, labeled “A”, works as the camera does now. “A-“ sets the camera for a one-stop underexposure, “A -- “ sets the camera for two-stop underexposure. Overexposure is set with “A+” and “A++”.
  

Jim

[Paul J]

OK, here's a serious proposal for a lean-and-mean Mx.

 

A stripped-down M-series Leica | The Last Word

 

If the whole thing is too radical, at least consider direct access to exposure compensation:

 

 

• The shutter speed dial no longer has positions for shutter speeds of 1 second and longer. Instead, there is a position labeled “L”. (for long) When the shutter speed dial is set in that position, the shutter speed can be set from 1 second to 300 seconds in half-stop intervals with the thumbwheel. The readout is in the LED finder display.
  
• With the extra real estate on the shutter speed dial obtained by dropping shutter speeds of one second or longer, make the A setting have five positions. The middle one, labeled “A”, works as the camera does now. “A-“ sets the camera for a one-stop underexposure, “A -- “ sets the camera for two-stop underexposure. Overexposure is set with “A+” and “A++”.
  

Jim

 

Hi Jim, I like the thought, and coming from dSLR's I would have agreed with you a couple years ago. I just shoot in manual 100% of the time though now as it's effectively the same thing. I just use either the shutter speed dial or aperture as my Exposure compensation which I've come to find as far more simple.

 

I would really appreciate an exposure scale in the viewfinder though. And an indication as to where my exposure lays on it. It would make it quicker and easier to adjust and focus without having to take your eye away from the finder.

[JimKasson]

I would really appreciate an exposure scale in the viewfinder though. And an indication as to where my exposure lays on it. It would make it quicker and easier to adjust and focus without having to take your eye away from the finder.

 

I hear you, Paul.

 

It's not in the optical finder, but having a live histogram in the EVF has really improved manual exposure for me. For manual exposure without the EVF, I usually ignore the meter and rely on situational awareness or the take-a-shot-and-look-at-the-histogram technique.

 

Jim

[Leicaiste]

What I miss the most on the M is an efficient sensor cleaning system.

 

Even more so now that on the M the shutter opens for the EVF or in the advanced metering mode.

[Paul J]

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I hear you, Paul.

 

It's not in the optical finder, but having a live histogram in the EVF has really improved manual exposure for me. For manual exposure without the EVF, I usually ignore the meter and rely on situational awareness or the take-a-shot-and-look-at-the-histogram technique.

 

Jim

 

That sounds great and a histogram in the OVF would be a god send. That with the conventional aperture wheel and a shutter speed dial would be all I would need. Would be so good to get a histogram overlaid/imposed in the OVF, ala Fuji Hybrid.

[algrove]

What I miss the most on the M is an efficient sensor cleaning system.

 

Even more so now that on the M the shutter opens for the EVF or in the advanced metering mode.

 

Well, Leica said the camera was too small to install an ultrasonic sensor cleaner.

 

Meanwhile, Sony brings out a pretty small a7r with AF, 36MP AND with an ultrasonic sensor cleaner.

 

Come on Leica get with it. I do not just bend over every time you give out BS.

[pieterpronk]

All you guys are suggesting is for Leica to add more features which are buggy which in turn become "features". Please Leica, keep it simple...

 

 

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[efreed2754]

Well, Leica said the camera was too small to install an ultrasonic sensor cleaner.

 

Meanwhile, Sony brings out a pretty small a7r with AF, 36MP AND with an ultrasonic sensor cleaner.

 

Come on Leica get with it. I do not just bend over every time you give out BS.

 

Er how many Ms and lenses are on your shelf?

[flyalf]

After doing some street;

- Shorter start-up time

- Shorter start-up time

- S HO R T E R S T A R T - U P T I M E

 

Around 0,05 s will suffice for start / wake-up.

 

Btw, why is exposure time shown for ages before its possible to make an exposure?

[mwilliamsphotography]

Simplicity by design.

 

I'd add an integrated grip that can house the battery and the SD card and free up some internal room ... (preferably 2 SD slots for redundant capture). Put the shutter speed dial on top of the grip (like the A7R), where the forefinger falls more naturally while gripping the camera.

 

This would allow a reduction in height while adding a bit of width to the step down portion of the top for even more electronics room ... a return to more of a MP proportioned M Digital.

 

36 meg CMOS sensor with pixel binning to 18 meg ... allowing a much better high ISO performance when needed, albeit at a reduced resolution ... 18 meg was fine in the M9, and this would increase the speed of capture, and the low light IQ a lot over the M9 and even the M240. Personally, I'd prefer a CCD, but I think that ship has sailed.

 

Beef up key parts ... the bottom plate from Really Right Stuff is superior build quality, has a much better/faster release mechanism, and has a built-in Arca QR slot ... beef up the strap lugs for R users, (wouldn't hurt for 0.95 users either). Provide a better strap like the R cameras once had.

 

Could still use a clip on EVF. Perhaps an integrated Hybrid finder? Not sure about this one ... I couldn't care less about an integrated EFV if it compromises the rangefinder in any way.

 

Offer an 0.85 finder option. With EVF and Live-view, those more prone to using 35mm to 90mm would benefit with a finder like the film Ms offered.

 

- Marc

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[bocaburger]

Coming late to this exercise in idle wishing, but I'll play.

 

-Take away live view, movie mode, and EVF would enable a return to a smaller screen than the M240 but higher res than the M9. That would allow a return to the size of the M9 (already thicker than the M7 but the M240 by comparison to a film M is obese). If I wanted an SLR or a video cam, I can buy them that are far better at what they do than the M240.

 

-Put back the frame line preview lever and non-electric illuminated white-only frame lines.

 

-Make the base plate non-removable with trap door(s) for the card and battery. There is no good reason for the baseplate other than nostalgia.

 

-Make the sensor/screen/motherboard/electronics a single factory-replaceable module that can be upgraded for a third the cost of a new camera. The most irritating thing to me in principle is paying a huge premium for mechanicals that could last 50 years knowing it will become technologically obsolete in 3.

[algrove]

Er how many Ms and lenses are on your shelf?

 

I am happily down to one M now. I can't take anymore. Just had two offered this week, but declined. If the a7r is a bomb out, then I have plenty of opportunity for back up bodies. I hate changing lenses in the SW, USA.

[Leicaiste]

I love the possibility to use the R lenses on the M.

 

I forgot how good they are.

 

Keep an EVF but improve it.

 

And there should be a much better way to implement the focusing help. Without loosing the view of the totality of the subject.

[Peter H]

Simplicity by design.

 

........

 

Some good ideas there Marc, but I really don't like the integrated grip. At present the ability to choose whether to use or not use a grip is an almost unique feature, and for the last year or so, much to my own surprise, I've been finding I'm much quicker with no grip. Please don't make me have one!

[mwilliamsphotography]

Some good ideas there Marc, but I really don't like the integrated grip. At present the ability to choose whether to use or not use a grip is an almost unique feature, and for the last year or so, much to my own surprise, I've been finding I'm much quicker with no grip. Please don't make me have one!

 

Okay Peter, I'll remove it before I send it off to Leica ... LOL!

 

Maybe future mini electronics and continued advancements in battery technology can help slim down the M ... as of late it seems to have gain a middle aged spread ... something I personally know is hard to reverse : -)

 

I'm surprised that Pixel Binning has been employed by more camera makers ... it's used a lot in other imaging applications. Imagine 36 meg for certain applications, then switch over to 18 meg for street work at higher ISOs and a faster capture rate.

 

I do wish they would "Man Up" this camera more for Pro use. I mean come on, strap lugs falling off? Really? How much more basic can you get? Simplification helps in that regard. Maybe a version without all the do-dads like movies ... and that external EVF is something just waiting to get broken in the Hub-bub of paying work.

 

I guess if your primary target audience is rich folks wandering into a Leica Boutique looking for their next bauble, being cage-fighting tough, isn't much of a priority.

 

- Marc

[algrove]

Maybe a version without all the do-dads like movies ... and that external EVF is something just waiting to get broken in the Hub-bub of paying work.- Marc

 

How true and that's why Overgaard always has a backup since as he says it's just plastic and WILL need replacing at one point and that makes it an expendable item to him.

[pico]

[...]

I'm surprised that Pixel Binning has been employed by more camera makers ... it's used a lot in other imaging applications.

 

If you are OK with moving back to CCD.

 

Re: an earlier comment - Binning to 2X is not really a great improvement.

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[mwilliamsphotography]

If you are OK with moving back to CCD.

 

Re: an earlier comment - Binning to 2X is not really a great improvement.

 

Binning CMOS sensors has been around since 2006, it isn't exclusive to CCD.

 

CMOS IMAGE SENSOR PIXEL WITH SELECTABLE BINNING - Eastman Kodak Company

 

Primarily for Industrial applications and use in video capture: As info from an older Vision Systems article on the subject of Kodak's PIXELUX technology details:

 

BINNING TECHNIQUES INCREASE SIGNAL-TO-NOISE RATIO IN CMOS IMAGERS:

 

“Binning provides customers with additional benefits,” says DeLuca, “by offering camera designers an opportunity to increase sensitivity in applications that call for reduced resolution. Through binning, a megapixel sensor can be operated at video resolution with an overall increase in sensitivity, a key consideration for video capture.” For a VGA image sensor, for example, the full resolution may be 640 × 480 pixels. When two-pixel binning mode and averaging are used, this resolution will decrease by one-quarter. When all-color pixel binning and averaging is used, 1/16 monochrome VGA resolution results. “This all-color binning mode is especially useful when images must be captured at very-low-light levels and a high signal-to-noise ratio is required,” says DeLuca.

 

These binning options include binning two or four pixels together. Because the binning architecture allows multiple pixels to be sampled in a single read operation, the frame rate is increased compared to standard off-array averaging. For same-color binning, this results in a 2X increase in frame rate; for all-color binning a 4X increase can be attained. According to DeLuca, such on-chip binning also results in improved sensitivity, lower noise, and reduced aliasing."

 

I can't speak to whether it would provide a great improvement or not, but would suspect IF a sensor maker went after that feature, it would benefit from additional R&D. As these cameras increase meg count, it seems logical to provide more capture flexibility in different shooting conditions.

 

In 2012, Sony repurchased sold assets to significantly increase their CMOS production capability ... being a top producer of video capture, it would not surprise me if they are the first to do CMOS Pixel Binning in a CMOS still camera, or in concert with still camera video capture (if they don't already do that now).

 

What is interesting when wading through all the "Geek Talk", is how important developments in cell phone imagers have been to the advancements in industrial type imaging applications and even our still cameras. CMOS sensors now outsell CCDs which has lead to even more resources being allocated to CMOS, and the resulting increase in image quality. Volume is the self selector.

 

- Marc