Guest Posted October 16, 2013 Share #21 Posted October 16, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... *sigh* It's worthless to discuss with fanatics. I'm real not interested in any military stuff, but even my less Leica Literature says about it definitely: Laney /Puts, Leica Taschenbuch, 7. Aufl., Lindemanns ISBN 3-89506-237-5, S. 74 = Leica Pocket Book (LPB6 p62): "Modelle für das Militär Leica IIIc Kennzeichen Zwischen 1939 und 1946 produziert und mit der Bezeichnung der jeweiligen Waffengattunggraviert, Heer, Marine und Luftwaffe. Diese Gravuren sind im Stil unterschiedlich, da sie von den jeweiligen Behörden vorgenommen wurden." Translation in English (Google Translator): "Models for the military Leica IIIc Features Produced between 1939 and 1946 and with the name of each type of weapon engraved, Army, Navy and Air Force. These engravings are different in style, because they were made by the relevant authorities. " "relevant authorities" means German Officials in their offices but not the company Ernst Leitz Wetzlar. Even if someone is obviously more interested in his historic photo stuff than in pictures made by his cameras, he should never forget, for what those little tinny boxes are originally made for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 Hi Guest, Take a look here New member with Leica IIIc. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sabears Posted October 16, 2013 Share #22 Posted October 16, 2013 I know those books you are referring to, that give a rough overview of things, sometimes with inaccuracies and summary judgments (and not only regarding military cameras, nothing bad in this , they perform well their role). They are not strictly based on specialized research, Leitz registers, etc. The fact is that, yes, there are engravings and engravings, so one can understand why a number of different fonts were used: the ones made by Leitz (see for ex. Lager book "Wehrmacht Leicas" or Cane List), those engraved by Leitz agent in Berlin, Franz Bergmann, and finally those done by the different departments of destination (the last identifiable studying the deliveries on the internal registers). I totally understand your point of view and I respect that, collecting is something different to photograph, but the memory of the past allows us to avoid the rewriting of history by those who have convenience to do so. Collectors are also, in their small part, guardians of the past, in many fields, not only ours. They also have social function. We live in times of mystification also with regard to the present... regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted October 16, 2013 Share #23 Posted October 16, 2013 Please lets not make the original poster look like a 'hell raiser' *fun intended* It's a nice find and I hope you enjoy using it, as I'm during the weeks pretty close to Antwerp, we could always do a analog photowalk, if you're interested ofcourse! (I have M's though no pre M's) I like to use kodak TRI-X! Have fun with your new companion! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted October 16, 2013 Share #24 Posted October 16, 2013 Oh and if you have a iPhone you can get a application from the appstore that does spot light meting, so you can if you are in doubt meter for the shutterspeed/aperture you need there are multiple around Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smb Posted October 16, 2013 Share #25 Posted October 16, 2013 As far as military collectable I recommend do not drop the camera. Two things to note for a beginner with the Leica IIIc. The first is that the viewfinder is metal and will scratch glasses if you wear glasses. The second is the leader from the modern film canister is shorter than the one needed for the screw mounts. You can buy a film leader cutter or make one. Look on the internet for videos of how to load a Leica screw mount. You find them helpful. Also, you can get a half case on the web from China from Zhou Camera Cases. I have purchased several from him. (Good luck.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellraiser Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share #26 Posted October 16, 2013 @jip: Thx, we should definitely do that! I was already planning to go to "Doel" next weekend. @smb: Thx for the info, I still have the original case that I can use, but a half case seems more interesting (doesn't have the lens cover on it) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted October 16, 2013 Share #27 Posted October 16, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Even if someone is obviously more interested in his historic photo stuff than in pictures made by his cameras, he should never forget, for what those little tinny boxes are originally made for. You are here in the "collectors and historica" forum, sorry but you cannot erase everything from the WWII era, make a step byside and do not feel responsible of what happens in that time. Even with military engraving these cameras are made for take pictures. I have under my eyes a IIIc with absolutely NO military engravings but only with its serial number I know it was delivered to the Lufwaffe in May 1940 with delivering document #9094. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellraiser Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share #28 Posted October 16, 2013 Hello JC, do you know anything about these markings on the rewind button? I think they are letters in "Fraktur" but I'm not sure. were they placed by Leica or other instances? Kind Regards, Johan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2013 Share #29 Posted October 16, 2013 ... Obviously one can not hide all things war related, but it's not necessary to appreciate it. And the crazy high prices for Leica with engravings from the war, as seen on auctions, show that there are enough collectors, who think they have to surround themselves with such military items because it just thrills them. The notice here given not to use a war Leica, so as not to detract from its potential value, shows the path away from any kind of photographic use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted October 16, 2013 Share #30 Posted October 16, 2013 A Leica camera is an innocent bird and very, very difficult to use as a weapon, also placing it on someone's head, a hammer is a lot better and cheaper but the best is a stone: it goes for free. Regarding prices, really not so high, but everything is relative. Do you want to be really shocked? Start from here... Top 10: Antique weapons - Wikicollecting old guns and swords: considering them only as tools, as an old camera, are totally worthless, as all the antiques, art and so on... But you will agree with me that these are nonsense reasonings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted October 17, 2013 Share #31 Posted October 17, 2013 And the crazy high prices for Leica with engravings from the war, as seen on auctions, show that there are enough collectors, who think they have to surround themselves with such military items because it just thrills them. Looks like a bar psychanalyse.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessestr Posted October 24, 2013 Share #32 Posted October 24, 2013 Hey Johan Did you buy it from ptcollectibles? It's a very nice camera. Also from Belgium ! Jesse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigr Posted October 24, 2013 Share #33 Posted October 24, 2013 Johan, I hope you are having fun with your new camera. Please do not feel badly about enjoying an ex-Luftwaffe piece. Using the logic of some posters here, we should ALL dispose of ALL of our Leicas and Leitz products of any sort since they were fashioned by the same company that supplied wares to the "evil regimes" of the past. Of course, we could also rationalize our possession of Nazi-era Leicas by considering the fact that they were sometimes used to document the atrocities committed by the villains. Thus, they deserve to be preserved as tools for good, since the photographs they created will help us "never forget." In the end, the old cameras are just assemblies of metal and glass. It is their users -- or at least some of them -- who should be forever condemned, not the machines. Take some pretty pictures, Johan! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithhl Posted October 24, 2013 Share #34 Posted October 24, 2013 First problem - exposure. I was taught to set the shutter speed at the film ASA number - e.g. for ASA400 film use shutter 1/400 or actually 1/500 which is nearby and available on camera. Then use f16 for sunny bright, f11 for bright, f8 for dull, f5.6 for very dull. Just approximate but workable. If in doubt use this but go down another two stops if view is slightly dark. Focus. Set the focus at 10m/30ft when camera is not being used. That way if you grab it in hurry and have no time to focus then depth of field will give you a reasonable chance of being in focus. Otherwise, given more time then just look as you lift the camera, think in terms of metres or 'steps' - if target is about 4 paces away then set focus to 4m as you pick up the camera. Don't bother with the rangefinder focusing unless you have TIME or you are working down below 2m where focusing comes more critical. Then you check your guess by using the rangefinder window. I have an M9 (because i like quick 'film processing') but I use it in manual form with all automation switched off and handled like I have told you above. Gives me great fun and I feel I am using a REAL old Leica. Good luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellraiser Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share #35 Posted October 25, 2013 Thanks for the tips! I'm going to take some pictures this weekend and hope to get them developped and scanned by next week I didn't buy it from a shop/dealer. I found it with a retired photographer that had it for sale for over a year (apparently on the wrong website and wondered why he didn't get any response) I also found it by accident. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellraiser Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share #36 Posted October 25, 2013 Thanks for the focussing part Think it took me about 2-3 minutes until I took my first picture following the manual Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikekone@comcast.net Posted October 25, 2013 Share #37 Posted October 25, 2013 Interestingly, a quick scan of posts indicates nobody mentioned the amazing behavior of the Leitz family during ww2 and how the campany's leadership opposed the horrors of the regime. The Leitz family put themselves at risk to aid Jews escape Germany. Just google Leica freedom train and see what comes up. So a Leica camera in a way represents what was right with humanity during a time that so much went wrong. They had to make camera's for the German military, not much choice. So the camera made in the dark days also represents the better side. So if its "affordable" to do so, I'd use the iiic, and point out its history and the goodness that also goes along with it to anyone that asks. I'm sure Ernst Leitz would smile if he could, knowing the camera was being used for photography and not as a freaky collectible. And if intent in actions is important, anyone using an IBM based machine is supporting a company that did everything it could to enable the very worst of humanity during those terrible days. And for photo content - the rather controversial Ken Rockwell site has the best info on how to load a Leica screwmount. Trim the leader (12 or 13 sprockets, I forget) then 2 sprocket holes must then be visible on the bottom of the canister before loading. Not 1, Not 3, but 2! Do this, and the film drops in like a charm every time. Leica screwmounts are actually super easy to load when the factory's intent is followed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted October 25, 2013 Share #38 Posted October 25, 2013 Interestingly, a quick scan of posts indicates nobody mentioned the amazing behavior of the Leitz family during ww2 We discussed the topic you have suggested many times, try to search it in the "search page" of the forum. It is a different subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikekone@comcast.net Posted October 25, 2013 Share #39 Posted October 25, 2013 I'm sure - its nothing new. But the new-to-Leica owner picked up some heat and I think this puts the discussion in context and frames the discussion from a different viewpoint. That makes it relevant I think. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted October 25, 2013 Share #40 Posted October 25, 2013 I'm sure - its nothing new. But the new-to-Leica owner picked up some heat and I think this puts the discussion in context and frames the discussion from a different viewpoint. That makes it relevant I think. Mike Maybe I do not understand what you mean. kind regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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