waloszek Posted October 30, 2013 Share #121 Posted October 30, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) And here its is, the isolated data: (Shot through glass with an X Vario) Best regards, Gerd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Hi waloszek, Take a look here Anybody switched from M to X-Vario? Experiences?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dkCambridgeshire Posted October 30, 2013 Share #122 Posted October 30, 2013 The images of the painting were shot in dim museum light, Rijks Museum and Van Gogh museum in Amsterdam, no flash (no flash allowed ),I don't consider them to be good images, rather , what this camera can do, it was really really dim in there, the focus locked in a split second in that that poor light, same in the church , darker than showing in the images and again the focus was no problem. The apple pie was in better light , just wanted to show what good Dutch apple pie looks like. I know what you're saying with "what does it all mean" looks like someone got real sick, most scientific oriented people would isolate the pertinent data. To be scientific the 'test' should be replicated with the camera firmly supported on a tripod to exclude 'operator shift' causing 'focus shift'. Only then, if focus shift occurs, can suspicions be voiced about camera malfunction rather than operator error. And the test should also be witnessed by an independent observer. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted October 30, 2013 Share #123 Posted October 30, 2013 The images of the painting were shot in dim museum light, Rijks Museum and Van Gogh museum in Amsterdam, no flash (no flash allowed ),I don't consider them to be good images, rather , what this camera can do, it was really really dim in there, the focus locked in a split second in that that poor light, same in the church , darker than showing in the images and again the focus was no problem. The apple pie was in better light , just wanted to show what good Dutch apple pie looks like. I know what you're saying with "what does it all mean" looks like someone got real sick, most scientific oriented people would isolate the pertinent data. There should be a stronger irony emoticon! I was referring to the fact that they are paintings and somebody will always find something to criticise, even paintings by the masters. If they were photos, not paintings, those were the comments some critics may have used. Actually, the pics look great, and no focusing problems whatsoever! I prefer manual RF focusing to AF because any mistake is mine. Only, with digital, back or front focusing may occur, and because the sensor is flat there is not so much latitude as with film. Lack of focusing accuracy would put me off an AF camera and I am sure others too, so a worthwhile discussion. Isolating the relevant data and explaining what it means would indeed help make sense out of that jumble of figures! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter L Posted October 30, 2013 Share #124 Posted October 30, 2013 And here its is, the isolated data: (Shot through glass with an X Vario) Best regards, Gerd Lovely image, the head is in focus and further afield is out of focus, similar to my apple pie image, what was your aperture ? this happens frequently with my labradors, to a greater extend, as they have longer noses, the tip of the nose is sharp and the ears are not, depending on the dof. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
waloszek Posted October 31, 2013 Share #125 Posted October 31, 2013 Thanks that that like it! The cat was so busy, this was the only sharper photo I got. Aperture was f/6.4 (1/80 sec, 46 mm = 70 mmm equiv., ISO auto (listed as 200)). Yes, longer dog noses can indeed present a problem... I would set aperture to f/8 or f/11 and increase ISO a little bit - just a suggestion. Best regards, Gerd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmldds Posted November 5, 2013 Share #126 Posted November 5, 2013 For my curiosity about this camera when I do not want to lug around 2 cameras, M9 and MM, I was looking for info and got more than I anticipated! Photography and cameras are supposed to enrich one's life, not give one a headache and heartache. I may go ahead and buy one to satisfy my curiosity. Any unhappy user wants to sell his/her:)? BTW, I have seen wonderful shots made by many people including Sharookh with this camera that I cannot even do with my 2 M's! My limitation are my skills and my vision, not my gear. After all, IMHO, the photographer's vision and technical ability will account for at least 80% of the outcome... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted November 6, 2013 Share #127 Posted November 6, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) When the image is in focus, the camera produces images that are really exceptional in depth, micro-contrast and rich color. However, it does randomly miss focus. I was shooting my grandson Sunday and twice, the camera miss focused. The first time, he was about 7ft from the camera and I was using spot AF. The spot was on his left eye but the whole image was out of focus and the EXIF showed that the camera focused at 0.86m. F6.3, 30.7mm (61.4), 1/2000sec, ISO 200. The second out of focus image, he was about 10-12ft away, again the spot was on his eye, 33.2mm, f10, ISO 200, 1/125sec and EXIF showed the camera set the focus distance to infinity (65,535). Other images shot were in focus with no problem. Why it does this, I don't know. I have not been able to find a commonality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guytou Posted November 6, 2013 Share #128 Posted November 6, 2013 Hello John, I thought that you had sent your X Vario to the customer service Leica. Why don't you send it with some photographs and a mail of explanations ? Your device is under warranty ! Leica will examine it and repair it or doubtless to replace it. Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted November 6, 2013 Share #129 Posted November 6, 2013 At this point, I am not convinced that it is a hardware problem. If it were, it should be more predictably repeatable. My concern is that with a random problem such as this one, Leica will just say there is nothing they can find wrong and after being camera less for a month or more return it. Based on Gerd's findings and my confirmation of his findings, I am convinced that it is most likely a software bug. I may call Leica New Jersey to see what they tell me. However, I sent the list of software bugs I have observed to Leica Germany with no response or acknowledgement. If they had replied that they were aware of the issue and working on it, I would have been more comfortable waiting on the fix. There are other bugs that are annoying such as the occasional EVF showing different colors than the LCD or only showing ½ the image, random very slow wake-ups, etc. However the one that causes the most missed shots is the AF issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guytou Posted November 6, 2013 Share #130 Posted November 6, 2013 Perhaps that Leica has knowledge of the problem but does not want to say too much because it is very random. In the meantime the engineers must work for the next firmware… Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted November 9, 2013 Share #131 Posted November 9, 2013 At this point, I am not convinced that it is a hardware problem. If it were, it should be more predictably repeatable. My concern is that with a random problem such as this one, Leica will just say there is nothing they can find wrong and after being camera less for a month or more return it. Based on Gerd's findings and my confirmation of his findings, I am convinced that it is most likely a software bug. I may call Leica New Jersey to see what they tell me. However, I sent the list of software bugs I have observed to Leica Germany with no response or acknowledgement. If they had replied that they were aware of the issue and working on it, I would have been more comfortable waiting on the fix. There are other bugs that are annoying such as the occasional EVF showing different colors than the LCD or only showing ½ the image, random very slow wake-ups, etc. However the one that causes the most missed shots is the AF issue. John, Please do not take offence with the following observation regarding your photographs as I'm trying to be constructive and to eliminate other possible causes of the alleged occasional focusing anomaly. In your 'Images to share' XV folio I cannot help noticing that approx 25% of the 48 images show evidence of the camera not being held straight i.e the images are leaning over and nearly every horizon shows definite 'slope' ... as if they have either not been composed properly, or, if they were composed 'straight', the camera may have been twisted just prior to pressing the shutter. If the camera was twisted after focusing then surely there is a risk of any resultant image being out of focus or losing the initial focus after the focus has 'locked on'. For this reason, your assertions that the focus anomaly is caused by the camera could be an incorrect conclusion. This is why tests should be conducted in a more scientific way with the camera firmly supported on a tripod. Only then, if the same anomaly occurs, can anybody be sure that the alleged focus problem is due to the camera and not due to operator error. Furthermore, please bear in mind that your assertion that there might be a problem, could be deterring potential users from buying, what is to many existing XV owners, a perfectly good camera with no focusing issues. I have not experienced any focusing error with my XV. Best wishes dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted November 9, 2013 Share #132 Posted November 9, 2013 Dunk, No offense taken. The lack of a horizontal level does hinder my always getting shots level, especially living in a hilly area (I should turn on the grid; however, doing so means information I want in the viewfinder like ISO is not shown). If the out of focus were a matter of inches your theory would make more sense. The answer is in the EXIF data. When I was focusing on an object 3 meters away and the camera select a focus distance of 1 meter, this large an error cannot be the result of camera tilt. At other times, focusing on an object 2 meters away and the camera sets the focus to infinity. Maybe something appeared to be higher in contrast at those distances but my recollection was that if so, I didn't see it in the frame. Interestingly, when manual focusing and reading the distance scale on the lens, it pretty much matches the data recorded in the EXIF file. Thus, the lens does provide the information to the EXIF file as to where it is focused. Additionally, I have seen this occur when using a tripod too. A software bug in the AF is the most likely explanation, though not the only possible explanation. A bug in the contrast detection algorithm could cause a computational error resulting in the servo setting the lens to the wrong focus distance. Lastly, I will work to improve my horizon composition. I got spoiled by the Sony having the level indicator. Perhaps I will switch to using the grid and just check ISO before shooting. Unfortunately there is no mode that gives you all the information one would like in the viewfinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted November 10, 2013 Share #133 Posted November 10, 2013 I was out shooting today while my car was being washed and waxed. I took this shot of a local Orange County California hamburger eatery. In the view finder I saw that the first shot looked soft as the image flashed quickly on magnified view on Auto Review set to zoom. The camera focus spot had been set to the chair i the doorway. It had flashed green and beeped. I immediately took a second shot and that one appeared to be properly focused in auto review. Here they are side by side in LR 5.3RC with no adjustments and zoom set to fit so you are seeing the full frame. Screenshot: Here is the relevant EXIF data for each: Image 671 EXIF: Image 672 EXIF: Note that the focus distance in the first shot is at 1.15M (1150/1000=1.15) and the distance for the second shot is at 5.66M (39646/7000=5.66) This happens every time there is a miss focus. The shutter speed was at 1/1250sec so camera shake can be ruled out and as you can see nothing in the frame is in focus. Images to be seen above: Link to download each image: https://www.dropbox.com/s/10bze4tr462b7ye/L1021671.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/ww9t75uic6t7vqg/L1021672.jpg Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208175-anybody-switched-from-m-to-x-vario-experiences/?do=findComment&comment=2461977'>More sharing options...
papimuzo Posted November 10, 2013 Share #134 Posted November 10, 2013 Thanks John, this time, you are convincing me. My only advice (as I 'd never got this type of missfocusing), send your XV to Solms, I'm pretty sure that something is not working into the AF mechanism/software of your camera. Thanks for your time put in these tests. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
symmetron Posted November 10, 2013 Share #135 Posted November 10, 2013 I've owned 2 XV's. The first one had significant focusing issues. I sent it to Leica USA and they replaced it as it was only a few weeks old, and at the time, Leica USA was not certified for major XV repairs. The second XV is fine; virtually no focusing issues. Barjohn, I'd recommend you sending your XV in for service regardless of hardware/software concerns and experiences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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