mark_j Posted July 10, 2013 Share #181 Posted July 10, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Having read this thread and many similar threads on other forums I thought I would make a couple of points if I may. Maybe of interest as I have little history here, either emotional or posting. I think people confuse price (objective) and value (subjective). Although I think the expression about someone knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing is a little patronising and overused, I think it has some relevance here. I have seen so many posters say that the X Vario (and indeed Leica cameras in general) are “overpriced” and this is just not true. Only real commodities can be over or under priced and Leica cameras are most certainly not commodities. Price is only relevant if you can’t afford it. This then leaves value as the subjective measure of whether or not the price is acceptable to a specific individual. Only the person contemplating the purchase can decide if there is value in buying it and I think it is wrong for anyone else to pass judgment on that assessment. Secondly there is nothing wrong in giving an opinion on a camera and discussing its advantages and disadvantages. In fact this is really helpful for people who don’t know the particular camera to help them decide if it may work for them. These opinions can be objective or subjective/biased and there is nothing wrong at all. The problem arises when people extend that opinion to the buyer or owner of that camera and this is when things get personal and unpleasant. This is particularly true of Leica cameras. For example I have read many times someone saying that a Leica is flawed in someway and furthermore it’s so expensive that the only person who would buy one is a wealthy playboy to show off or as a gift to someone’s mistress who would wear it like an expensive handbag, or that the buyer knows nothing about real photography and is only buying the red dot. In fact any reason other than the person thinks it’s a great camera and in photographic terms suits them perfectly. This sort of attack on the person is in my opinion completely unwarranted. So in summary all we have to do is talk about the positives and negatives of the camera and avoid judgments as to the type of buyer/owner or judgments about that person’s assessment of the value to them of a particular camera and all will be sweetness and light. Ok fair enough, that will never happen but you can’t say I didn’t try. Oh and I looked at the Vario and it’s a nice camera, just not for me. Mark Mark Jackson Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 Hi mark_j, Take a look here With friends like this, who needs enemies?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 13, 2013 Share #182 Posted July 13, 2013 The Vario-Elmar-S 30-90? Leica has huge and varied lens expertise. I wouldn't make a big deal out of the XV lens. Sure, the IQ sounds good, but the M, R & S lenses are another league. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Do you really know how much design expertise went into the X Vario's lens? There's a damn sight more work involved in making a zoom lens that is usable at every aperture and which renders images sharp across the frame throughout the zoom range than in making a prime. Have you ever used a 28-90mm R lens? I would not be surprised if there's some of that lens' pedigree in the X Vario's lens. We'll probably hear a lot more about the X Vario's lens design if and when an 'in depth' review is published in eg Leica Fotografie International magazine. I am very impressed by the X Vario's lens - both its solid build quality and its performance. dunk And who designed the X Vario lens? None other than Peter Karbe whose zoom lens design expertise helped create the legendary 28-90mm R lens. http://www.reddotforum.com/content.php/331-Leica-X-Vario-(Typ-107)-Review-Looking-Beyond-the-Specs Read the article to find out why the X Vario's lens apertures are what they are. And it's not so dissimilar to the 28-90mm R as regards being fully usable at any aperture. Maybe now those who insist it's not a proper Leica lens and those who think it's a Panasonic lens will wake up - and realise that the X Vario's lens is a real gem not to be dismissed out of hand. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 13, 2013 Share #183 Posted July 13, 2013 Maybe now those who insist it's not a proper Leica lens and those who think it's a Panasonic lens will wake up Who said that? and realise that the X Vario's lens is a real gem not to be dismissed out of hand. Nothing I've seen supports this (and I haven't dismissed it out of hand - who are you referring to?), but that isn't really the point - it isn't a camera for me. Enjoy taking your pictures - that is the point, I'd say. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted July 13, 2013 Share #184 Posted July 13, 2013 Assuming it is a real gem of a lens, is that going to sell a lot of cameras? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carduelis Posted July 13, 2013 Share #185 Posted July 13, 2013 And who designed the X Vario lens? None other than Peter Karbe whose zoom lens design expertise helped create the legendary 28-90mm R lens. http://www.reddotforum.com/content.php/331-Leica-X-Vario-(Typ-107)-Review-Looking-Beyond-the-Specs Read the article to find out why the X Vario's lens apertures are what they are. And it's not so dissimilar to the 28-90mm R as regards being fully usable at any aperture. dunk Thanks for the link to the article. A very informative read. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted July 13, 2013 Share #186 Posted July 13, 2013 A nice write up by David Farkas, but a far cry from an unbiased product review. David is a Leica seller and talented photographer with X-Varios in stock and ready to ship. Visit his on-line store and try to buy a digital RF. All are out of stock, including the M-E. Do I need to say more......? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 13, 2013 Share #187 Posted July 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) A nice write up by David Farkas, but a far cry from an unbiased product review. David is a Leica seller and talented photographer with X-Varios in stock and ready to ship. Visit his on-line store and try to buy a digital RF. All are out of stock, including the M-E. Do I need to say more......? You could add that the M 240 is in short supply everywhere - not just at DF's store. But supplies are improving. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
euston Posted July 13, 2013 Share #188 Posted July 13, 2013 A nice write up by David Farkas, but a far cry from an unbiased product review. David is a Leica seller and talented photographer with X-Varios in stock and ready to ship. Visit his on-line store and try to buy a digital RF. All are out of stock, including the M-E. Do I need to say more......? Yes, you do need to say more or say less. As it stands your post clearly implies bad faith on the part of the review’s author. I thought it was a balanced review with plenty of solid facts alongside the opinion and far from uncritical. I don’t detect bias and I see no evidence that it is anything other than an honest attempt to inform. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 15, 2013 Share #189 Posted July 15, 2013 Assuming it is a real gem of a lens, is that going to sell a lot of cameras? Well, it should, if people know what photography is about... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted July 15, 2013 Share #190 Posted July 15, 2013 Maybe now those who insist it's not a proper Leica lens and those who think it's a Panasonic lens will wake up - and realise that the X Vario's lens is a real gem not to be dismissed out of hand. I'm not sure anyone has dismissed this lens "out of hand" – why would they? – or questioned whether it is capable of good results. However, seeing as you raise again the question of the manufacturing provenance of this lens, it is highly doubtful that it is built (in any meaningful sense) in Germany. The 'fact' that it was designed by Karbe doesn't make it any less likely that the lens manufacture actually takes place in Japan or (more likely) China. The cost of the camera is surely the biggest clue that this lens isn't built in the same factory that produces the S and M lenses. This of course doesn't make it any less a "proper Leica lens". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 15, 2013 Share #191 Posted July 15, 2013 Assuming it is a real gem of a lens, is that going to sell a lot of cameras? No need to 'assume' - because it is a fact. Is this fact going to sell a lot of cameras? It's one of the factors which will influence potential buyers. If I had not already bought the camera the fact that the X Vario's lens has 'Leica 28-90 R DNA' would certainly influence me. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 15, 2013 Share #192 Posted July 15, 2013 I'm not sure anyone has dismissed this lens "out of hand" – why would they? – or questioned whether it is capable of good results. However, seeing as you raise again the question of the manufacturing provenance of this lens, it is highly doubtful that it is built (in any meaningful sense) in Germany. The 'fact' that it was designed by Karbe doesn't make it any less likely that the lens manufacture actually takes place in Japan or (more likely) China. The cost of the camera is surely the biggest clue that this lens isn't built in the same factory that produces the S and M lenses. This of course doesn't make it any less a "proper Leica lens". Leica employs over 700 people in Portugal - and they do not just make binoculars there. Why the prejudice against non-German Leica manufacture? Leica M parts are also made in Portugal including lens components. And lots of people have dismissed the X Vario lens; read all the comments about it being too slow and having too short a zoom range. Leica Portugal QA standards are unlikely to be of a lower standard than those in Solms. Here's a video showing how the Leica M9 was received in Solms from Portugal. At 00.20 seconds the commentary states; " ... the first step we take out the camera which comes from Portugal ..." The M9 was at least 90% manufactured in Portugal. Leica Portugal has expanded production facilities in recent months. There's likely far more Leica production in Portugal than in Japan and China. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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