ricardsonwilliams Posted June 28, 2013 Share #1 Posted June 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) The Leica X Vario Review: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 Hi ricardsonwilliams, Take a look here Steve Huff Review of X Vario. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest badbob Posted June 28, 2013 Share #2 Posted June 28, 2013 It's a very good review insofar as covering every aspect of the camera and different people's experiences with it, and feelings about it. What Steve fails to understand though is that the XV is only 40 percent more than the X2 and has a zoom lens, while the 'M' can't even get a comparable Leica vario lens, and with a fixed lens is still $11000 or more. So the XV is 40 percent more than the X2 but 400 percent cheaper than the 'M' *and* with a zoom lens that the 'M' cannot get (Leica brand). And where Steve says the XV is not a mini-M in any way, shape or form, it's true insofar as the price (it's more like the X2), it's true insofar as the lens (it's a zoom lens, so that's better than the 'M'), and not so true insofar as look and feel. It's more awkward than the other Leicas I suppose, but still much closer to 'M' in general look and feel than to the X2. And while Steve acknowledges in several places that for many Leica users the XV's physical and aesthetic quality and Leica pedigree are worth paying a lot more for than other brands, he goes the other direction and makes value comparisons to other brands based on performance in a given level of light, etc. My feeling is that those comparisons, while logically sound to someone who is shopping for competitive value and pitting the Leica against the Sony et al, still don't mean anything to many or most real Leica fans, but worse yet, are a major source of the bitterness that Steve himself anguishes about. I would not review the XV against those other brands on value for performance. That to me makes as much sense as comparing a Louis Vuitton bag to a similar bag from Tumi. There's no reasonable basis for comparison, except to show specifc areas of build quality and finish that some users are willing to pay for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted June 28, 2013 Share #3 Posted June 28, 2013 ....(it's a zoom lens, so that's better than the 'M')... Time for Solms to drop their M lens line, then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
baretta Posted June 28, 2013 Share #4 Posted June 28, 2013 Time for Solms to drop their M lens line, then. Wait until they release interchangeable X vario. ...(it wont happen anyway) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted June 28, 2013 Share #5 Posted June 28, 2013 I'm still waiting for the compact f/1.4 21-90 zoom! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest badbob Posted June 28, 2013 Share #6 Posted June 28, 2013 Time for Solms to drop their M lens line, then. You mean that I can pick up a M9 with a 28-70 mm Leica zoom lens (or similar)? Really? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted June 28, 2013 Share #7 Posted June 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Of course, if you equate an X Vario with an M9. Just don't use it in low light. Actually, the tiny D-Lux 6 does have a brilliant zoom lens, a Leica DC-Vario-Summilux 24-90 f/1.4–2.3 ASPH. But a much smaller sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest badbob Posted June 28, 2013 Share #8 Posted June 28, 2013 Wait until they release interchangeable X vario. ...(it wont happen anyway) The XV is 40 percent more than the X2. What do you think the price would be for an XV-2 with lens mount and 28-70 interchangeable Leica lens included? Could they do that for less than $5000 u.s.? The reason I ask is because they caught me right near my limit around $3000, and much more than that, I wouldn't be a Leica customer. And I don't know about anyone else, but it seems like the XV would be Leica's way of getting some sales they couldn't otherwise get anywhere near, since M9 plus lens is several times more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest badbob Posted June 28, 2013 Share #9 Posted June 28, 2013 Of course, if you equate an X Vario with an M9. Just don't use it in low light. Actually, the tiny D-Lux 6 does have a brilliant zoom lens, a Leica DC-Vario-Summilux 24-90 f/1.4–2.3 ASPH. But a much smaller sensor. I have never had a Panasonic Leica before, but (interestingly enough) I will have tomorrow. I did that only because I can carry both at the same time. The trick is going to be able to grab one of those quickly and remember its settings without getting confused by the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 28, 2013 Share #10 Posted June 28, 2013 ...And while Steve acknowledges in several places that for many Leica users the XV's physical and aesthetic quality and Leica pedigree are worth paying a lot more for than other brands, he goes the other direction and makes value comparisons to other brands based on performance in a given level of light, etc. My feeling is that those comparisons, while logically sound to someone who is shopping for competitive value and pitting the Leica against the Sony et al, still don't mean anything to many or most real Leica fans, but worse yet, are a major source of the bitterness that Steve himself anguishes about. I would not review the XV against those other brands on value for performance. That to me makes as much sense as comparing a Louis Vuitton bag to a similar bag from Tumi. There's no reasonable basis for comparison, except to show specifc areas of build quality and finish that some users are willing to pay for. The thing is, inconveniently for Leica, 99.9% of the population DO live in the real world. Only the most blinkered red dot die-hard would not acknowledge that. Comparisons WILL be drawn with other cameras - and the XV will be found sorely lacking. It will also be compared to other luxury goods and discretionary spend items and again will come up short. It really is that simple. Regards, Bill Sent from another Galaxy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest badbob Posted June 28, 2013 Share #11 Posted June 28, 2013 The thing is, inconveniently for Leica, 99.9% of the population DO live in the real world I can't disagree since I don't know how someone who purchases a $11000 M9 is real world. I've hung out with a lot of photographers at a lot of clubs, and have yet to see a Leica - lots of Canon and Nikon though. Comparisons WILL be drawn with other cameras - and the XV will be found sorely lacking. Steve covered that very well, but again, what's the relevance? Who would be seeking a $3000 non-interchangeable lens (and large) camera like the XV? Other than someone who doesn't have an 'M' and wants the next best thing (in appearance and build and brand). It will also be compared to other luxury goods and discretionary spend items and again will come short I compared Tumi bags to Vuitton bags (men's bags) - which luxury camera by which manufacturer would be compared to the XV? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 28, 2013 Share #12 Posted June 28, 2013 ...I compared Tumi bags to Vuitton bags (men's bags) - which luxury camera by which manufacturer would be compared to the XV? Sorry, you are missing my somewhat poorly expressed point. It's not about comparing luxury cameras. Discretionary spend is about comparing cameras with watches, with holidays, with a new TV, sound system, bespoke suit or whatever. Just because someone has high net worth and a high discretionary spend capability it doesn't mean they are spendthrift or stupid. The XV delivers minimum for maximum in a way only rivalled by the Hassy Lunar without any of the advantages of the M. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timd. Posted June 28, 2013 Share #13 Posted June 28, 2013 ... but still much closer to 'M' in general look and feel than to the X2. i guess without the - let's say - funny marketing campaign no one would expect it to do that. the control layout is more like the x2, there's no rangefinder, there's no wide aperture optics - except for the design of the top plate, there's nothing that is 'm' about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 28, 2013 Share #14 Posted June 28, 2013 The thing is, inconveniently for Leica, 99.9% of the population DO live in the real world. Only the most blinkered red dot die-hard would not acknowledge that. Comparisons WILL be drawn with other cameras - and the XV will be found sorely lacking. It will also be compared to other luxury goods and discretionary spend items and again will come up short. It really is that simple. Regards, Bill Sent from another Galaxy The X Vario would be 'sorely lacking' if it was not capable of producing excellent image files at high ISO settings. As it produces superb images at high ISOs the relatively slow lens speed is not the alleged major problem that the critics suggest. The critics (most of whom have not used the camera but habitually hypothesise using their tunnel logic) should maybe consider trying the camera and downloading the files ... and only then give an objective rather than subjective opinion. Leica Camera AG camera and lens designers know more than a thing or three about optics and digital imaging - certainly very much more than all the critics. If the camera was not capable of producing exemplary image files at high ISOs, Leica would not have put so much effort into the camera and its on target availability. Unfortunately the 'flat earther' critics fail appreciate the camera's amazing roundness and capabilities. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest badbob Posted June 28, 2013 Share #15 Posted June 28, 2013 Sorry, you are missing my somewhat poorly expressed point. It's not about comparing luxury cameras. Discretionary spend is about comparing cameras with watches, with holidays, with a new TV, sound system, bespoke suit or whatever. Just because someone has high net worth and a high discretionary spend capability it doesn't mean they are spendthrift or stupid. The XV delivers minimum for maximum in a way only rivalled by the Hassy Lunar without any of the advantages of the M. Regards, Bill I suppose everyone is missing every point here then. The second I saw what appeared to be a full size Leica, i.e. more like 'M' size and not 'X' size (which I had a year ago), *and* it had a zoom lens *and* it was only $2850, I thought the angels were bringing me a gift. I never could stretch to the $11000 or so for a M9, nor could I see having to swap extra (and very expensive) lenses to get 2 focal lengths, so the XV for less than $3000 (and being a real Leica) was unbelievable luck. And I guess I'm the rare customer who sees things that way, but I'm not alone, since others have said similar things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onceuponatime Posted June 28, 2013 Share #16 Posted June 28, 2013 "Steve Huff AF in low light is SLOWShooting in low light? If so, forget the X Vario. At a dinner I passed around the X and asked everyone to take some shots and let me know what they thought. Keep in mind, 90% of these guys are Leica shooters who love Leica. By the time the camera came back around the comments sounded something like this: “If I owned this camera I would be throwing it against the wall” “Is this for real or a joke” “It wont focus”! “That laser light is bliding me”! (Speaking of the light that helps to aid AF) No one liked it. Not one said they would buy one. Most of these guys were shooting M’s and were Leica’s core customer. They said NO GO just due to the fact that in dim light the AF was failing badly. " Im not getting this. When I tested XVario in dimly lit basement photogrpahy department on customers walking about, AF locked every time and quickly enough for me. Yet nearly every preview, review online is saying Xv AF is slow or hunts in low light. I did focus on customers who were 15-20feet away at 70mm. Perhaps when subjects are closer 3-7 feet Xv may be slow, hunt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 28, 2013 Share #17 Posted June 28, 2013 ...Unfortunately the 'flat earther' critics fail appreciate the camera's amazing roundness and capabilities. Or know a mis-step when we see it. Look, I get it. Some people will like this camera. Some will get good results with it. But it is not the sine qua non. I'm an ex-LC-1 user, bought new. I loved that camera, with all it's quirks and foibles, with the small sensor and the slow write times and small buffer. Like many others I have looked for a modern equivalent ever since. The XV is far from it. In terms of results I have looked at the images posted and compared and contrasted them with those being posted to this day in the Do Digilux 2 photos have a distinctive look? thread - there is no comparison, I am afraid, even with beer goggles. In fact there is a Digilux 2 for sale near me. It's only a couple of hundred quid. I am seriously considering picking it up because even with all its drawbacks it floats my boat far more than the XV ever will. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfunnell Posted June 28, 2013 Share #18 Posted June 28, 2013 Good and fair review by Steve as usual but I know which one I prefer and it's not the X Vario. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iforum Posted June 28, 2013 Share #19 Posted June 28, 2013 Anyone who buys, intends to buy or dreams to own this Leica will state that it is fantasic, yep in real life outside a department store it is a tad on the slower side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippa Posted June 28, 2013 Share #20 Posted June 28, 2013 Enjoyed the review and there's much to suit me. I saw one in Selfridges a couple of hours ago in a half case and all I could think was how huge it was...far larger than I'd anticipated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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