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Q&D Coin photography with X Vario


dkCambridgeshire

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The sun came out late this afternoon so decided to try some coin pics in my kitchen - but as soon as the copy stand was set up the clouds floated over :( . However, these are the pics:

 

Firstly, the set-up using 'stacked' Leitz Elpro VIb achromatic c/u lenses (dating from 1965 and originally designed for the Leicaflex R lenses); each Elpro is 4.92 diopter and during previous trials with the X1 up to 4 of them could be stacked - but 3 is sufficient to fill the frame on the X Vario using the 70mm setting. I made a Series VI to 43mm adaptor using the Hoya 43mm filter mount. Very simple window lighting was used with a polystyrene reflector to one side of the copy stand.

 

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cont'd ...

Edited by dkpeterborough
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And here are some of the results; these are all straight JPEGS with no cropping or post processing apart from one stray hair being eliminated. Autofocus was used for all exposures.

 

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So far seems the X Vario is a decent tool for close-up photography but need to repeat the experiment with better lighting and make notes of actual magnifications achieved with the Elpro combinations. The coins used are not good specimens - but the sharpness achieved is OK.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

Edited by dkpeterborough
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Could you let me know what the filter size of the Xvario lens is , is it 43mm ? and where to get the adaptor between the X Vario lens and the Elpro ?

 

Thanks

 

Peter

 

The X Vario has a 43mm filter thread; the Elpro VIb has a 44mm thread; I could not source a 44mm to 43mm step down ring so I made a 'permanent' one ie epoxied a modified 43mm filter mount onto a modified Elpro VIb as follows:

 

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Firstly dismantle the Elpro VIb by removing the retaining ring and shaking out the lens .. the mount's thread needs to be filed down from 44mm to a flat profile and need to protect the lens whilst this is being done

 

 

This is the Elpro achromatic lens element after dismantling; the 'join' between the two elements comprising the achromat is clearly visible; the achromatic construction results in a highly corrected 'doublet' without the usual shortcomings of lesser quality single element c/u lenses - and being 'Leitz' and a proven Elpro design it is as good if not better than any currently available achromats - and considerably cheaper than eg Marumi offerings. But please ignore the Ebay Leica sharks who offer Elpro R lenses at ridiculously high prices eg £80 and more ... they can be sourced for less than £30 if you shop around.

 

 

Here the Elpro mount's 44mm thread is being filed down so that it ends up c. 43mm diameter.

 

 

Similarly, after removing the circlip from a 43mm filter and then removing the filter glass, the inside of 43mm mount is also filed down sufficiently to slip over the modified Elpro .. but care is needed to avoid filing it too thin which can compromise the integrity of the existing 43mm thread which will be screwed into the X Vario lens. The original filter glass is no longer required so is now in my 'spares box'.

 

 

 

Here the 'fit' is being tested prior to epoxying the two components together

 

... cont'd

Edited by dkpeterborough
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Next prepare the epoxy resin ... I used a slow setting cement and after sticking the two component rings together, placed the finished mount in my warm airing cupboard overnight to accelerate curing

 

 

 

 

And this is the almost finished mount. All that remains to be done now is to fit the Elpro lens back into the front of the Elpro mount and screw in its retaining ring. The modified Elpro will now screw into the X Vario zoom lens' 43mm filter thread - and additional Elpro VIb c/u lenses can be added/stacked to further increase magnification - the front of each Elpro VI series c/u lens has a female 44mm thread.

 

If anyone wishes to try this modification please proceed at your own risk and be very careful to file down the 43mm filter very carefully to avoid compromising/damaging the filter's 43mm thread. If the thread is damaged it may in turn damage the X Vario's filter thread or become stuck when screwed into X Vario's zoom lens. But if tested as you proceed it should be OK. Also. make sure that any epoxy adhesive is fully cured before using the modified Elpro.

 

I made a similar modification to another Elpro VIb to enable close focus with the Leica X1 as per this previous thread http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-x1-forum/238563-improving-x1-x2-macro-performance.html

 

I have not calculated the exact magnifications possible with the modified Elpro(s) and the X Vario but so far appears that a greater magnification is possible than with the X1 - and being used at the 70mm focal length setting there is a longer lens to subject distance.

 

This project is 'ongoing' and additional subject matter will be tried asap with more suitable lighting. The coins used so far are not good specimens because they are too scratched and tarnished - but they serve to illustrate the X Vario's potential as a close-up camera. A two pence coin will more than fill the X Vario's image frame when using three stacked Elpro VIb c/u lenses at the 70mm focal length setting.

 

My X Vario now serves a s a 'rainy day' close-up camera for when it's too dull and wet to use it outside :)

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

Edited by dkpeterborough
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I find this fascinating.

 

Only for this modifications its already worth bying the XV!

Like this doityourself work very much.

And great pics from the coin!

 

Maybe I should sell my M8 and try the XV:confused::confused:

 

gr

 

John

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I find this fascinating.

 

Only for this modifications its already worth bying the XV!

Like this doityourself work very much.

And great pics from the coin!

 

Maybe I should sell my M8 and try the XV:confused::confused:

 

gr

 

John

 

Thank you John. We tend to underestimate the usefulness of the 1970s Leitz 'R' Elpro V1 and VII and Elpro 2 and 3 series c/u lenses. They are available at bargain prices compared to the new price of eg the Leica S2 Elpro lenses which cost £800 new and the Digilux 2 Elpro which is no longer available new and commands prices of c. £350 secondhand. The R series Elpro c/u lenses can transform many camera lenses into first class close-up objectives which can perform as well as marque macro lenses. The foregoing experiment will be repeated with better coin specimens and more suitable lighting in the near future. The X Vario has a superb zoom lens which can be nudged to maintain its performance into the near focus range with Elpro lenses and a suitable adaptor. If Leica's hopes of high volume sales for the X Vario are achieved there might be a case for making a new dedicated Elpro(s) close up lens(es) specifically for the camera.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

Edited by dkpeterborough
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Some facts and figures ref Leitz Elpro R lenses:

 

The Leica R system Leitz Elpro VIb close up lenses are over 40 years old but they are highly corrected 4.92 diopter achromats.

 

Elpro 2 close up lenses are optically the same as the VIb but have a different thread ie a dual M55/M44 thread as distinct from Series VI .

 

Elpro 2 types cost more on the used market than the Series VI types.

 

I paid between £10 and £25 each for my VIb Elpros.

 

Other Elpro c/u lenses are also available but their magnifications are much less than the VIb and type 2 eg:

 

Type 1 and VIa: 2.51 diopters; Type 3 and VIIa : 1.66 diopters; Type 4 and VIIb: 0.75 diopters.

 

I have used two VIb and two VIa Elpros together with no visible vignetting when used with the Leica X1.

 

In theory the Elpro 2 and 3 lenses could be used on the X Vario but would require a 55mm to 43mm step down ring ... which not recommended and probably not feasible unless several stepping rings are used together.

 

dunk

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Guest badbob

The way the coin faces stand out in relief is a good recommendation on what you're doing. I'm going to practice some now to see how close I can get with a D-Lux6, but I can't imagine getting anything that realistic. Kinda reminds me of using the Minox with its copy stand.

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The way the coin faces stand out in relief is a good recommendation on what you're doing. I'm going to practice some now to see how close I can get with a D-Lux6, but I can't imagine getting anything that realistic. Kinda reminds me of using the Minox with its copy stand.

 

 

It's much easier with a D-Lux 6 as the magnification required to fill the frame is much less and you will not need any supplementary c/u lenses. I just tried focusing on a coin using my D-Lux 5 handheld and easily filled the frame using the same 2p coin as used above.

 

The D Lux 6 sensor measures 7.6mm x 5.7mm = 43.32mm²

 

The Vario X and X1 and X2 sensor measures 23.6mm x 15.7mm = 372.09mm² ... almost 8.6x larger than the D-Lux 6 sensor.

 

A 2p coin will easily fill the D Lux 6 sensor when the camera is set to macro and appears to be photographed at a high magnification but in reality the magnification is only 5.7/25 (sensor width divided by coin diameter) = 0.23mag ie approx 2/10 life size

 

The same 2p coin filling the frame of the X Vario sensor is photographed with the aid of the stacked Elpros at a magnification of 15.7/25 = 0.63mag ie approx 6/10 life size ... a much greater magnification is required to fill the frame using the X Vario.

 

In fact, using the X Vario requires 3x more magnification of the subject to fill the frame compared to using the D Lux 6

 

Without the Elpros, the X Vario can only photograph the coin at the native closest focus distance ie 30cm which only shows the coin filling 1/3 the width of the monitor.

 

Much easier with smaller sensor sizes to incorporate what appears to be a super macro mode into the camera - but in reality the image from the D Lux 6 is 'blown up' approx 6x when the tiny sensor is viewed on the monitor ... whereas with X Vario the sensor image is only 'blown up' approx 2.5 x to fill the monitor.

 

The D-Lux 6 'macro' image is quite suitable for internet and Email illustrations and prints up to A3 size ... but the APS-C image from the X Vario will print at much better quality and is also capable of being cropped to a greater degree.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

Edited by dkpeterborough
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Novoflex make (or have made for them) a unique camera flash ie the Novoflex 'Flash Art' which allegedly emits a perpendicular flash beam from the 13cm x 10cm flash head. I've managed to acquire two secondhand units and have just commenced experimental close-up illumination with them. The flash head has a built-in modelling light which can also be used as a mini light box and slide viewer. I was hoping to use the unit with a wireless flash trigger but couldn't get it to work 'wirelessly' off-camera so have reverted to a 'wired' configuration. The wireless mode will be sorted - it worked OK two days ago but not this morning.

 

The 'Flash Art' should in theory provide excellent 'grazed lighting' by virtue of its perpendicular (to the flash head) flash beam - which can then be aimed across, and parallel to e.g. a coin which should bring out the 'relief' of the design. The unit will not work in TTL mode with the X Vario ( I do not have a suitable SCA module) so it was used in manual mode - on the 1/16 power setting. Initial experiments showed that the flash head &/or reflecting surfaces were spilling too much light onto the black velvet background - thus part of the flash head has been masked leaving only the top 1/3 emitting the flash beam.

 

This is the set-up with the X Vario on a copy stand and two Elpro VIb c/u lenses screwed onto the zoom lens. I planned to use the 70mm focal length but inadvertently used approx. 40mm ... did not realise until finishing ... there were too many other things to consider eg optimising the lighting distance and angle.

 

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This photo was taken in daylight so as to illuminate all the apparatus ... the flash head's modelling light is turned on to simulate the flash just for the purposes of this illustration. In actual use the coin pics were exposed in darkened room using the modelling light plus flash.

 

The subject is a George III 1797 'Cartwheel Twopence (Tuppence)', 4cm diameter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soho_Mint

 

And these are the results. Slightly different flash to subject distances and lighting angles were used for each side of the coin - hence the different tones. The frame has been cropped at the sides into a square format; the image height has not been cropped - the coin filled the camera's monitor screen.

 

 

Obverse side of coin. The copper is very soft hence the numerous 'nicks'. But this specimen is in surprisingly good condition compared to other cartwheel coins I've seen; it's now 216 years old.

 

 

1 second f6.3 ISO 400; modelling light plus flash at 1/16 full power

 

 

 

The reverse side of the coin has a verdigris deposit - a typical defect in old copper. Note the word 'SOHO' just under Britannia's shield indicating Matthew Boulton's 'Soho Mint' in Birmingham ( see above WIKI link)

 

 

0.5 seconds f5 ISO 400; modelling light plus flash at 1/16 full power

 

 

The X Vario plus Elpo c/u lenses with help of the Novoflex 'Flash Art' unit has made a reasonable job of recording the coin detail.

 

More experiments are planned.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

Edited by dkpeterborough
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  • 1 month later...

The following illustrate the actual magnifications possible with the X-Vario when using one, two and three Elpro VIb c/u lenses at the 46mm (70mm FF equiv.) maximum zoom setting. Magnifications calculated using sensor width SW in mm. divided by ruler width RW visible in photo ... where SW = 23.6mm:

 

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3 x Elpro VIb closest focus 23.6/33= 0.72 mag ... with subject to lens distance of 4cm

 

 

 

 

3 x Elpro VIb furthest focus 23.6/36 = 0.66 mag ... with subject to lens distance of 7cm

 

 

 

 

2 x Elpro VIb closest focus 23.6/40 = 0.59 mag ... with subject to lens distance of 6cm

 

 

 

 

2 x Elpro V!b furthest focus 23.6/53.5 = 0.44 mag ... with subject to lens distance of 11cm

 

 

 

 

1 x Elpro VIb closest focus 23.6/56 = 0.42 mag ... with subject to lens distance of 9.5cm

 

 

 

Just one Elpro VIb attached offers very significant improvement in magnification i.e compared to the native 0.16 mag possible at native closest focus distance of 25cm.

 

Native closest focus 25cm was measured from front lens element to subject; this differs from the published 30cm close focus distance.

 

Use of 4 x Elpro VIb is also possible and offers 0.85 magnification ie almost 9/10 life size on the sensor. I have not posted the results using 4 x Elpros because they show some pin cushion distortion - which is not surprising when 4 close-up lenses comprising eight additional lens elements are attached. Also, the results using 4 x VIb Elpros were not sharp on one side of the image - but this was probably due to the ruler not being 100% parallel to the camera's sensor i.e. the image plane.

 

I need to repeat the experiment using 4 x Elpro VI b c/u lenses under more controlled conditions i.e. ensuring that subject and sensor are perfectly parallel ... and also using different apertures. All the above images were taken at f6.4 ISO 400 with the camera and subject on a copy stand. Even in these illustrations the LHS of the image is less sharp than the RHS - probably due to the subject plane not being entirely parallel to the image plane. But they do illustrate the potential for using 35 year old Leitz Elpro close-up lenses with a modern APS-C format digital camera.

 

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

Edited by dkpeterborough
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Illustrations showing three Elpro VIb c/u lenses attached to the X-Vario and the camera's monitor image of the ruler. The crumpled foil reflector evens up the window lighting illuminating the ruler.

 

The Series VI (M44 x 0.75) thread of the first Elpro VIb has been epoxy-glued into a 52mm - 49mm step down ring - and then screwed into a 43mm to 49mm step-up ring. The combination then screws directly into the X-Vario 43mm lens thread.

 

However, please note that using this combination necessitates pre-setting the X-Vario to the maximum zoom focal length i.e. 46mm (70mm FF equivalent). Between the FF equivalent 28mm and 50mm zoom ring settings, the lens' front element retracts into the lens mount ... and then protracts out again between 50mm and 70mm settings.

 

This method of attaching the first Elpro differs from that used previously i.e. the modified 43mm filter mount method which required 'filing down' the mount to make it slip over the Series VI male thread.

 

Use of the two stepping rings as per second paragraph above is much easier. And the 52mm to 49mm step down ring can also be screwed directly into a Kiwi 49mm filter holder as used with the Leica X1 and X2 - thus enabling Elpros to be used with all three Leica X series cameras.

 

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Best wishes

 

dunk

Edited by dkpeterborough
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If anyone is not familiar with the nomenclature used for describing image magnification the following might be of interest:

 

Magnification size is that relative to the sensor dimensions. The APS-C sensor in the X-Vario measures 23.6mm x 15.7mm.

 

Thus in the above ruler illustrations, if the ruler was magnified and photographed at life size, 23.5 mm length would be visible on the image. The three Elpros cannot produce life size magnification. In the first illustration the minimum length of ruler which can fill the frame at the highest magnfication, i.e closest focus distance, is 33mm.

 

Magnification on the sensor is thus 23.6/33 = 0.72

 

But this can also be expressed as approximately 7/10 (seven tenths) life size ... or 72% life size.

 

0.72 life size, 7/10 (72/100) and 72% magnification all mean the same.

 

Similarly, actual life size, 1.0, and 100% magnification all mean the same.

 

And half life size i.e ½, 0.5 and 50% magnification all mean the same.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

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This whole thread has been fascinating, Dunk. Thank you so much for posting it. And let's see some more of your coin collection, please!

 

I have purchased a few from The Royal Mint recently with a view to producing some coin photographs using different types of lighting. One of those coins was the Charles Dickens £2 Proof specimen. 'Was' because after photographing it http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/other/292489-variations-coin-theme-x-vario-elpros.html ... I discovered the coin was faulty; the gold plating was poor and the alleged 'mirror finish' was very dull. I returned the coin to The Royal Mint and requested a replacement - but when the replacement arrived it had the same type of fault - so I sent it back and requested another. I was then advised that remaining stocks had been quarantined and were no longer available - and received a refund. The coin cost £30 - reduced from approx. £49.50. I thought it would be a bargain buy but it proved to be a very frustrating experience. And I am wondering why it was reduced ;) The fault on the Charles Dickens coin is practically invisible to the naked eye; it's only visible through a loupe or in an enlarged close-up photograph :eek: My quest for a reasonably priced proof coin continues and as soon as one surfaces it will be photographed and posted on the forum. I have some 'brilliant uncirculated' specimens to photograph but their textures are not so good as those of proof specimens. They will probably be photographed soon.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

Edited by dkpeterborough
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  • 7 months later...

Thanks Dunk! I have just received a perfect Leitz Elpro Vlb off that online auction site for a good price. I am already very pleased with the results from holding it up to my XV lens as I have no way to adapt it yet. But, I have just found this: Heliopan 43-44mm Step-Up Ring (#260) 700260 B&H Photo Video

 

Though it is quite expensive for what it is, I think it should do the trick? I am not quite as crafty as you at fashioning adapters ;)

 

Cheers,

Mike

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Novoflex make (or have made for them) a unique camera flash ie the Novoflex 'Flash Art' which allegedly emits a perpendicular flash beam from the 13cm x 10cm flash head.

 

...

 

The X Vario plus Elpo c/u lenses with help of the Novoflex 'Flash Art' unit has made a reasonable job of recording the coin detail.

 

More experiments are planned.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

 

These are amazing in not only their detail, but the use of flash with virtually no shadows. What flash compensation did you use, if any? I haven't seen this flash used in macro photography before.

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