StephenPatterson Posted June 24, 2013 Share #41 Posted June 24, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thirty years is short time for me. Too long for some... Who's trolling? All you EVER post is complaints as if you were some kind of stockholder, and you are not. What's with you? Why do you take it so personally. If Leica is screwing up, move on like an adult. If you want to pounce on a loser, why not go somewhere that cares about the Hasselblad Lunar. All I post are complaints? Do you often have trouble with reality if you don't take your meds? Enjoy your Lunar (whatever that is and whatever it has to do with this topic). Can someone please tell me how to block a useless individual? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 Hi StephenPatterson, Take a look here Leica. Why such a half backed business plan?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
StephenPatterson Posted June 24, 2013 Share #42 Posted June 24, 2013 Steve, wouldn't it be better for Leica to sell the M's to their customers rather than use the few inventory being produced to have displays? When I talk to the reps at the store they have had little time with the new M themselves because of scarcity. I think that Leica not having demo M240 cameras at their flagship stores (none in Hong Kong either) is an absolute failure of the marketing plan. We all know how much Leica enjoys emulating Apple and their stores. Well, even when Apple is out of stock of a certain product there are still demos available for customers to see and try. It's a core part of the marketing plan. For Leica not to do likewise months after launch only highlights the extremely unusual production situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 24, 2013 Share #43 Posted June 24, 2013 I may be vociferous on a couple of recent disappointing releases but I had the realisation that these releases are only disappointing to my strict doo-lally standards and are therefore quite meaningless for anyone except me. For example, my Noctilux and M9 is, to me, close to the perfect tool. Yet I want it to be better, somehow. Perhaps it's because when you reach the peak (or close to the peak) you've nowhere else to search.... I will never be an apologist to any brand for no reason but in this case I will add that they happen to have the one camera system that is, IMO, the best camera system available which i my opinion affords them some room to move and grow. The fact of the matter is that Leica is a small company who can not keep up both demand and people expectations of them. WHen you raise the bar with a product like the M9 it becomes increasingly difficult to keep people happy. It is pointless to pontificate about how a company could do better when you know nothing about the financial, logistical, design and manufacturing structure of a company. Let them first perfect the new camera and then release the grip for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 24, 2013 Share #44 Posted June 24, 2013 We all know how much Leica enjoys emulating Apple and their stores. Do we?:confused: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted June 24, 2013 Share #45 Posted June 24, 2013 [...]Can someone please tell me how to block a useless individual? So I am useless? Learn how to edit your Ignore List. It is under Control Panel (User CP). I hope you find this useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted June 24, 2013 Share #46 Posted June 24, 2013 Speaking of worthless comments. I find your post above referencing the OP as a spoiled luxury consumer especially insulting. Shame on you. ... Actually, he said wanna-be luxury goods consumer. According to him only middle class people or nouveau riche think Leica is a luxury good item. And only those people are bothered with this forum. Real luxury goods purchasers would not be buying Leicas or be on these forums. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 24, 2013 Share #47 Posted June 24, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Do we?:confused: Leica has adopted Apple's naming strategy, have created packaging that is very "Apple" like in it's attention to detail, have created glass walled boutique stores in wealthy shopping malls and districts. I don't think this should come as any great surprise Jaap... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 24, 2013 Share #48 Posted June 24, 2013 Why is it a surprise to you that one of the most successful companies in the world have an influence on modern marketing methods? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 24, 2013 Share #49 Posted June 24, 2013 Leica has adopted Apple's naming strategy, have created packaging that is very "Apple" like in it's attention to detail, have created glass walled boutique stores in wealthy shopping malls and districts. I don't think this should come as any great surprise Jaap...Well, there are quite a few single brand boutique stores around. I would say Leica's store styling comes closest to Rituals, and their boxing is very similar to the La Prairie cosmetics Patricia uses (I wouldn't know about those otherwise ). I don't think we can draw any other conclusion than that they are following a trend that many high-end brands are following. I don't quite see where Apple comes in specifically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted June 24, 2013 Share #50 Posted June 24, 2013 Why is it a surprise to you that one of the most successful companies in the world have an influence on modern marketing methods? Apple didn't become that company by building nice stores filled with celebrities and champagne however. They became that successfull company by making quality products that are available and quick to the market, and by providing class leading service and support with quick turnarounds, and product availability in stores with excellent customer experience. Never ever is the focus on celebrities and all sorts of unecessary fluff either: The focus is ALWAYS on the product and the customers. Quite the opposite of Leica really... Except the ("empty") stores and quality product. It almost seems to me that Leica wants to create a "society" with their stores rather than focusing on the photographic tools that they are supposed to make. Flashy celebrities, champagne and impressions are more important than the products... Sort of messed up if you ask me. I love the Leica products but seriously, the new-breed Leica store cult is not something I want to be associated with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted June 24, 2013 Share #51 Posted June 24, 2013 Getting back to business plans, even car analogies. In my opinion it is the uncertainty that bothers people. When I paid for my M a while back B&H had end of February as delivery date. Shortly thereafter it went to "back ordered" with no date. Leica is the only goods company that I have dealt with where delivery date is "you'll get it when you get it" rather than a specific date. Everyone else, regardless of the type of goods had a concrete delivery time frame in X weeks, months or years (in some cases). One can't even say "well, you are not dealing directly with the factory, so they can't be responsible". Every company I have dealt with through distributors inform their distributors regarding a production schedule, so they in turn can inform their customers. Personally, I have given up on my expectations of a time frame. I have bought an MM, and busy enjoying it. As Leica says "it will be here, when it arrives". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 24, 2013 Share #52 Posted June 24, 2013 Apple didn't become that company by building nice stores filled with celebrities and champagne however. They became that successfull company by making quality products that are available and quick to the market, and by providing class leading service and support with quick turnarounds, and product availability in stores with excellent customer experience. Never ever is the focus on celebrities and all sorts of unecessary fluff either: The focus is ALWAYS on the product and the customers. Quite the opposite of Leica really... Except the ("empty") stores and quality product. It almost seems to me that Leica wants to create a "society" with their stores rather than focusing on the photographic tools that they are supposed to make. Flashy celebrities, champagne and impressions are more important than the products... Sort of messed up if you ask me. I love the Leica products but seriously, the new-breed Leica store cult is not something I want to be associated with. Erm...I waited 4 months for my Retina macbook Pro to become in stock in a major city, London. I had to pay an extra £100 to get priority "pro service" on an older machine which was scheduled for a 3 week turn around without a loaner. All it did was jump the standard service to the que of Pro Service and I had to wait a week for it anyway without a machine to use. Leica recently quoted me a 2 day turn around for the same fee with a loaner. Supply is an issue but they have just built a whole new factory. The two options are to be patient or go elsewhere. Frustrating, yes, but it seems most are happy to be patient. I've not seen any stores filled with champagne and celebrities although I will admit I've only been to the mayfair store where I was served by very pleasant people in a quiet and comfortable store. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted June 24, 2013 Share #53 Posted June 24, 2013 I am a little worried myself. It is always the same. Every camera that comes out has some serious flaws that have to be ironed out. Nothing seems to ship on time except for the little consumer cameras. And products that are announced aren't available for the longest time. Just think about the leaf shutter lenses for the S2, which were one of the main selling point. And in the end, everything is just a little overpriced. I bought most of my lenses right when the M8 came out, and prices were steep, but justifiable. Now we are in a realm where I spend as much on insurance for my photo gear as I used to spend on film and processing when I went on a trip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted June 24, 2013 Share #54 Posted June 24, 2013 Leica is the only goods company that I have dealt with where delivery date is "you'll get it when you get it" rather than a specific date. Everyone else, regardless of the type of goods had a concrete delivery time frame in X weeks, months or years (in some cases). Personally, I have given up on my expectations of a time frame. I have bought an MM, and busy enjoying it. As Leica says "it will be here, when it arrives". To be fair to Leica, other camera companies are not that much better in communicating. Last year Nikon D800 and D800Es were in extremely short supply, and the answer my dealer and I got from Nikon sounded strangely like "it will be here when it is here". Also to be be fair to Nikon, this was a February to June gap from order to delivery, and for my M240 it was September to May. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonki-M Posted June 24, 2013 Share #55 Posted June 24, 2013 To be fair to Leica, other camera companies are not that much better in communicating. Last year Nikon D800 and D800Es were in extremely short supply, and the answer my dealer and I got from Nikon sounded strangely like "it will be here when it is here". Also to be be fair to Nikon, this was a February to June gap from order to delivery, and for my M240 it was September to May. but we don't pay the amount of money we do on Leica to receive 2nd rate services like those ubiquitous companies now, do we? At least Apple has it in their right mind to provide amazing services for the premium they charge on their products. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted June 24, 2013 Share #56 Posted June 24, 2013 ... Apple has it in their right mind to provide amazing services for the premium they charge on their products. So does Leica, once you get hold of a product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonki-M Posted June 24, 2013 Share #57 Posted June 24, 2013 So does Leica, once you get hold of a product. ironically, your statement holds true for new products as well as older products...Leica products are quite prone to being homesick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anupmc Posted June 24, 2013 Share #58 Posted June 24, 2013 [...]...for my M240 it was September to May. Solms, Germany (September 17, 2012) - Leica Camera presents a groundbreaking milestone in the nearly 60 year history of the Leica rangefinder system: The Leica M. Setting entirely new standards, [...] The Leica M will be available from Leica dealers, including the Leica Store Washington DC, in early 2013 in a choice of black paint or silver chrome finish. When did Leica ever tell anyone M's would be available in Sept'12 People are constantly deluding themselves Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted June 24, 2013 Share #59 Posted June 24, 2013 He was talking about order to delivery time frame. Ordered in September '12, and got it in May '13. There are other people that have ordered in September, and have yet to get delivery. And, obviously M was not available at dealers in early (or mid) 2013. Edit: Definition of available meaning one walks into the store, and walks out with the product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted June 25, 2013 Share #60 Posted June 25, 2013 He was talking about order to delivery time frame. Ordered in September '12, and got it in May '13. There are other people that have ordered in September, and have yet to get delivery. And, obviously M was not available at dealers in early (or mid) 2013. Edit: Definition of available meaning one walks into the store, and walks out with the product. By this definition, Apple's iPhones have not been available those past few years quite often. I know it as I used to purchase them. Obviously, the time between September 2012 and "early 2013" can not be claimed to be waiting time as the availability of the product was given as "early in 2013" from the beginning. Well, you can claim it, of course, but it's senseless. Otherwise, you could have ordered the "first digital full format M with CMOS sensor" in 2008. That would have given some nicely nasty threads here with waiting times of five years. Just imagine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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