jaapv Posted June 8, 2013 Share #21 Posted June 8, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) You guys miss the point: When using a set shutter speed there is NO auto-iso. It is broken. It does not work. You can set your M to Auto-ISO, it will say AUTO-ISO, but it will not work. Please, stop debating what your preference is. This broken code. Simple as that. Yes, Jaap, I did read your post, then you changed it after I posted. Did you read my post. Yes - it should be disabled in manual. That is what manual means. No auto anything. Nothing with a broken code. A disabled feature. The only fault is that it should be grayed out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 Hi jaapv, Take a look here AUTO ISO issue with M240. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
algrove Posted June 8, 2013 Share #22 Posted June 8, 2013 This has been mentioned before, I still prefer the M9/MM ISO selection screen. For me I can jump faster when required to other ISO settings without having to go through each ISO number to get to another higher number. Jaap I have not been on too much lately. Did you receive your M? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted June 8, 2013 Share #23 Posted June 8, 2013 So each time I switch from AE to manual I have to disable auto-ISO and back again? That is a PITA to me. Yes, when switching to full manual mode from double-auto mode then obviously you'll have to disable two auto modes. As simple as that. Disabling one must not automatically disable the other. Sorry if this makes your A feel P. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 8, 2013 Share #24 Posted June 8, 2013 This has been mentioned before, I still prefer the M9/MM ISO selection screen. For me I can jump faster when required to other ISO settings without having to go through each ISO number to get to another higher number. Jaap I have not been on too much lately. Did you receive your M? I am #1 on the list with a large dealer where I ordered a few weeks ago and they are trickling in. I received a payment request yesterday. so I cancelled my order with another dealer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 8, 2013 Share #25 Posted June 8, 2013 Yes, when switching to full manual mode from double-auto mode then obviously you'll have to disable two auto modes. As simple as that. Disabling one must not automatically disable the other. Sorry if this makes your A feel P. The whole point of manual is that you gain full control over the exposure parameters. Switching to a half-baked state requiring extra button presses and wheel turnings to get it right is a design flaw in my book. How can you set a fixed exposure for compensation or a panorama with ISO jumping up and down to the camera's whim defeating the photographer's choice? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 8, 2013 Share #26 Posted June 8, 2013 Yes - it should be disabled in manual. That is what manual means. No auto anything. Nothing with a broken code. A disabled feature. The only fault is that it should be grayed out. Grayed out??? Gray-out a feature because you don't use it that way? Why even have it listed? Let's just have Leica gray-out, or better yet, remove all the features Jaap doesn't use. Now you are really making no sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 8, 2013 Share #27 Posted June 8, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you had started with the M240 do you think it would make a difference? Yes it would make a difference no matter which camera you started from. Let's say you are shooting away at ISO 200 and 1/125 sec. You push the ISO button and select 400. So far so good. Manual shooting as Jaap calls it. Now you push the ISO button again and select Auto ISO from the ISO list. When you return to shooting nothing happens. No Auto-ISO. Nothing. The camera chooses and sets an ISO for you that has nothing to do with the lighting condition. Auto ISO isn't just disabled, it doesn't work. You can choose it, but it does not do anything. Leica goofed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 8, 2013 Share #28 Posted June 8, 2013 I too don't like it that the auto iso remains on in manual. It's an extra step to do when switching from AE mode to manual. I would rather prefer that the camera reverts to base iso when I switch to full manual, as it was implemented in my Sony A900. Hi Edward. This is your preference (camera switches to base ISO), which is fine. The part that is not fine is that Auto ISO does not work. You can not set your own shutter speed and have the camera vary ISO for you. You can try, but it doesn't work. You can select your own shutter speed and you can select Auto ISO, but it is broken. It will show Auto ISO has been selected, but it doesn't work. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted June 8, 2013 Share #29 Posted June 8, 2013 The whole point of manual is that you gain full control over the exposure parameters. Switching to a half-baked state requiring extra button presses and wheel turnings to get it right is a design flaw in my book.How can you set a fixed exposure for compensation or a panorama with ISO jumping up and down to the camera's whim defeating the photographer's choice? Well, there is no switch for "manual" mode, or is there? When you turn the shutter speed dial from A to to, say, 1/125 you are doing just that: Setting a specific shutter speed. The camera should use that shutter speed with all the other settings that I have previously dialed in. It must not disable e.g. my auto ISo setting, my auto WB setting, or anything else that I have set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 9, 2013 Share #30 Posted June 9, 2013 Hi Edward. This is your preference (camera switches to base ISO), which is fine. The part that is not fine is that Auto ISO does not work. You can not set your own shutter speed and have the camera vary ISO for you. You can try, but it doesn't work. You can select your own shutter speed and you can select Auto ISO, but it is broken. It will show Auto ISO has been selected, but it doesn't work. Cheers That is something else. If you would read my posts you ail see that I advocate that the user should be able to activate auto-ISO with manual as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 9, 2013 Share #31 Posted June 9, 2013 That is something else. If you would read my posts you ail see that I advocate that the user should be able to activate auto-ISO with manual as well. Yes! You finally agree with us. Man, that was like pulling teeth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 9, 2013 Share #32 Posted June 9, 2013 He has no teeth left. He's country doctor. Any way, falsies are better and they keep Fixodent in business! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 9, 2013 Share #33 Posted June 9, 2013 Just to make sure we are not talking at cross-purposes. The ideal system for me would be: 1. The user defines Auto-ISO (or fixed ISO) in AE mode. 2. In manual mode Auto-ISO as set above is switched off and the camera reverts to a user-defined preset ISO value (which may well be by user choice Auto-ISO). And everybody is happy post #14..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted June 9, 2013 Share #34 Posted June 9, 2013 Just to weigh in. Jaap, do you think Manual Aperture, Manual Shutter and Auto ISO should not be an available shooting option? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 9, 2013 Share #35 Posted June 9, 2013 Yes, it should be available to cater for those who use the combo. However I think the ideal choice should be either <AE on, with ISO setting fixed including auto-ISO user selectable>, or <AE off, with ISO setting fixed including auto-ISO user selectable>. However, neither M9 nor M240 offer this system. For my use of auto-ISO the 240 is perfect, as I want AI to be disabled as soon as I go to manual without extra button presses, for others the M9 works better as AI is maintained. It is just the way one uses the features. I take the camera off AE to be able to get a fixed exposure, for instance for panoramas or exposure compensation (in other words turning it into an instant M6 with one flick of the shutter speed dial) ,others see the primary use in getting a constant aperture/shutterspeed combination, with the camera still controlling exposure through ISO. Maybe making one button programmable to select "all automation off" would solve the problem, but the implementation may overtax the programming possibilities. As it is the 240 fits my approach perfectly whilst others dislike the impossibility of selecting their choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted June 9, 2013 Share #36 Posted June 9, 2013 The whole point of manual is that you gain full control over the exposure parameters. You seem to believe that that switching from "A" to a fixed shutter speed meant going into full manual mode. But in fact, it's just switching from "A" to a fixed shutter speed. Going into full manual mode means switching off all auto modes deliberately, not just one. Consider the Leica X1 or X2. Set both exposure-control dials to "A". Now switch the shutter-speed dial to a fixed shutter speed. Do you see the aperture dial magically move away form its "A" position? If not then why not? Will you complain? Switching to a half-baked state requiring extra button presses and wheel turnings to get it right is a design flaw in my book. So your book is flawed. If you don't want Auto-ISO then don't use Auto-ISO. Other users (including me) are having no problem to understand how an Auto-ISO mode is supposed to work with both aperture and shutter speed fixed, and how and why this is useful at times. It is not a "half-baked state" but a useful auto mode. How can you set a fixed exposure for compensation or a panorama with ISO jumping up and down to the camera's whim defeating the photographer's choice? My choice is defeated when I select Auto-ISO and the camera switches to some arbitrary fixed ISO value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Lss- Posted June 9, 2013 Share #37 Posted June 9, 2013 What Leica (and many others) have missed is that a digital camera should ideally have a direct control for ISO, just like for the other variables controlling exposure. Epson got it right (by copying the Bessa dials) on the R-D1, which of course did not implement auto-ISO. Adding that is however trivial from usability point of view, and the dial removes the need for current menu acrobatics of the M line. Configurability is a pretty good remedy for lack in design, but it's always good to get things right in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 9, 2013 Share #38 Posted June 9, 2013 You seem to believe that that switching from "A" to a fixed shutter speed meant going into full manual mode. But in fact, it's just switching from "A" to a fixed shutter speed. Going into full manual mode means switching off all auto modes deliberately, not just one. Consider the Leica X1 or X2. Set both exposure-control dials to "A". Now switch the shutter-speed dial to a fixed shutter speed. Do you see the aperture dial magically move away form its "A" position? If not then why not? Will you complain? So your book is flawed. If you don't want Auto-ISO then don't use Auto-ISO. Other users (including me) are having no problem to understand how an Auto-ISO mode is supposed to work with both aperture and shutter speed fixed, and how and why this is useful at times. It is not a "half-baked state" but a useful auto mode. My choice is defeated when I select Auto-ISO and the camera switches to some arbitrary fixed ISO value. Hmm... despite being of a certain age, I have no difficulty remembering what ISO speed I set last.YMMV. I do not want to have to go to extra button presses to get the camera out of auto mode do do so. I have to take it from my eye during shooting.Don't try to force your tendency to let the camera decide for you on me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted June 9, 2013 Share #39 Posted June 9, 2013 Don't try to force your tendency to let the camera decide for you on me. Tsk ... you really don't understand that this is exactly what you are doing on us, do you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 9, 2013 Share #40 Posted June 9, 2013 Only on those that don't read what I write...:rolleyes:For instance post 14, 35,,etc.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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