Flash for M8

[scott kirkpatrick]

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We need an abbreviation for this: YCMV (your ceiling may vary). Israeli ceilings are quite predictably white and about 3 meters up, so bounce flash makes a very reliable almost shadowless illumination indoors:

 

 

and the zoom setting on the flash is chosen to match the distance at which I am working, rather than the actual lens selected. I can see value in the M8's automation for fill flash. And for serious setup work, like architectural grade interiors, with multiple flashes set to fire remotely (way beyond my experience), I believe you will find you are working in a manual mode again with exposure determined by step by step testing and histogram monitoring.

 

So for semipro stuff and candid portraiture, I think 3rd party flashes will do as well as SCA-equipped Leica or Metz equipment, and maybe cost a bit less.

 

scott

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[Riley]

indeed, I make a point of photographing rooms wherever possible at the usual, expected, or more comfortable eye height. For loungerooms salons dining rooms and bedrooms this is at seated height, elsewhere in kitchens bathrooms and so on, its at standing height.

 

So on occasion the properties of bounce flash vary, particularly in lower ceilings.

[M8-]

I just bought a Metz 54 with 3502 adapter. But the TTL mode does not work in M8. Is it not M8 also support TTL? How come this flash TTL mode does not work, is it a faulty flash?

 

Pls help

[lars_bergquist]

You don't need a monster flash. You need an extension cord (no small problem, I admit.) Now I'm trying the scary procedure of uploading a jpg. If this works, then know that this was done with a small 'dumb' and fully pocketable Metz 34 CS-2, on manual, bounced from the ceiling. A quick test and a histogram told me what f-stop to use.

 

I filched the shoe-to-foot cord from my old Olympus OM system. It transmits nothing but the firing command – but there's nothing else to transmit!

 

The old man from the Age of Flashpowder

[lars_bergquist]

Now how the devil do I post a jpg if not by the procedure indicated under the posting text window?

 

The old man from the B.C. (Before Computers)

[scott kirkpatrick]

Now how the devil do I post a jpg if not by the procedure indicated under the posting text window?

 

The old man from the B.C. (Before Computers)

 

I usually do it by putting the jpeg on a website (pbase or my home page at work) and then linking to it using the

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

controls (the postcard icon). If the jpeg is not too large, you can click on the paper clip in the top row of icons, bring down a "manage attachments" dialog box, and find the jpeg on your own computer, uploading it to the leica-camera-user.com site. That's more complicated, but it does work if you are patient and go all the way to the bottom of the dialog box to find the right buttons to click on.

 

scott

[scott kirkpatrick]

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I just bought a Metz 54 with 3502 adapter. But the TTL mode does not work in M8. Is it not M8 also support TTL? How come this flash TTL mode does not work, is it a faulty flash?

 

I don't own Metz, but apparently TTL doesn't work because the M8 doesn't support TTL. It uses something called GNC (guide number) as a form of intensity control managed from the back of the flash. Try that one. The reason is that it has to measure exposure with the shutter closed, not during the exposure.

 

scott

[wparsonsgisnet]

I just bought a Metz 54 with 3502 adapter. But the TTL mode does not work in M8. Is it not M8 also support TTL? How come this flash TTL mode does not work, is it a faulty flash?

 

Pls help

 

PL, the M8 will not do ttl. The light meter cannot read the correct light off the sensor. It will do a ttl-substitute, called gnc or guide number control, with the appropriate flash (the Metz 54 will do this).

 

With the Metz 54, you can mount the flash on the M8, turn both on, and set the metz controls to Manual-GNC. Under this scenario, the M8 will make the Metz do a pre-flash so it can see how much lilght is there, and the camera will then tell the Metz to do a second flash, this time with the right amount of light.

 

The other alternative is to let the flash do the sensing. Use a flash set to Automatic, and set the M8's aperture, iso, and zoom (lens length) as didrected or selected on the flash. This does NOT involve a pre-flash. My problem with the pre-flash is that the subject(s) think the picture has been taken when the first flash goes off and they stop looking interested (or interesting).

 

The reason the Leica M6-ttl and M7 can do ttl is that the light meter reads the light reflected from the film during the exposure (some light bounces back into the light meter). Digital sensors don't bounce light in a way that this will work.

 

My preference, given a white ceiling, is to use the Metz pointed 45 degrees up, with a snout on it (like a Stoffen diffuser), in Automatic mode. I set the M8 to 1/250 (max for flash sync), aperture to f8 (matched to the settings on the Metz), and the flash set to 60mm zoom (I believe that's the shortest setting on the Metz) for all lenses shorter than 75.

 

Bouncing off the ceiling gets rid of the shadoes behind the subjects -- they need to be a few feet in front of the rear wall -- and the diffuser keeps the light from being harsh. You can see an example of this above in Scott Kirkpatrick's posting.

 

If you don't have a diffuser snout, you can get the same effect by pointing the light up 45 degrees and rubber-banding a white card along the top side. This acts as a reflector, making some of the light move forward onto the subject(s). It's a neat trick.

 

Enjoy the Metz. I waited a long time to get mine. They're the real thing.

[robsteve]

There are also a few Metz 54-MZ3 on ebay right now at the $100 range. None of them have the Leica adapter, but I saw one of them on Ebay a few days ago.

 

If you get a SCA 3502 adapter it needs to be a modification 4 (m4) or later. The Metz distributors will update the older SCA 3502 adapters to the latest software for free. I think Mod 5 might be the latest.

 

Robert

[bill vann]

thanks all

 

for now i'll sort something with the wein and existing flashes, but will look at the metz stuff.

 

i used Metz flashes back in the mid-60s early 70s, guess i'll see if they aged better than i did

 

 

bill

[M8-]

Bill

 

Thanks for all these valuable information. I understand now.

[photorunner]

I'm not very familiar with manual/auto flash. I've used an M6 ttl before with the SF20 where I could just dial down the flash in ttl mode. Does anyone have any recommended settings for using a non dedicated flash like the Sunpak 383 or Vivitar 283/285 with the M8 or DMR under the following conditions:

 

1. for fill flash outdoors without diffuser

2. indoors while capturing as much ambient light as possible without diffuser

3. using Gary Fong's Lightspere diffuser what type of compensation if any?

4. using Stofen diffuser what type of compensation if any?

5. What's the maximum lens coverage of the flash? Can the flash cover 16mm film 21mm digital?

 

Please show examples of pictures taken under the scenarios mentioned above.

 

Herb

[Riley]

I'm not very familiar with manual/auto flash. I've used an M6 ttl before with the SF20 where I could just dial down the flash in ttl mode. Does anyone have any recommended settings for using a non dedicated flash like the Sunpak 383 or Vivitar 283/285 with the M8 or DMR under the following conditions:

 

1. for fill flash outdoors without diffuser

2. indoors while capturing as much ambient light as possible without diffuser

3. using Gary Fong's Lightspere diffuser what type of compensation if any?

4. using Stofen diffuser what type of compensation if any?

5. What's the maximum lens coverage of the flash? Can the flash cover 16mm film 21mm digital?

 

Please show examples of pictures taken under the scenarios mentioned above.

 

Herb

 

hey Herb

 

shooting with auto flash should present no problems

set the camera and the flash up for the same shooting circumstance

the flash is controlled by its internal circuitry

so fitting a stofen or other diffuser shouldn't matter

it is the flash that controls the power of the output, to the settings you make

 

that said, a stofen or other diffuser will take some ultimate range out of a flash

but for powerful flash, this is some considerable margin

 

my stofen works without fault bounced on my Metz54 out to 10 meters with a 22mm lens

there is no sign of a hotspot, it looks very even and controlled

i dont compensate at all, it just does its thing on auto flash

i would think ultimately it takes about 2 stops out of maximum flash

 

for fill flash i use a higher speed shutter, beyond my shutter sync speed, and make no other changes

[photorunner]

Thanks Riley but I need to clarify your fill flash settings. You sometimes set the M8 beyond the 1/250 setting? I thought the camera would not trigger the flash beyond 1/250.

 

Herb

[Riley]

Thanks Riley but I need to clarify your fill flash settings. You sometimes set the M8 beyond the 1/250 setting? I thought the camera would not trigger the flash beyond 1/250.

 

Herb

 

i dont use M8, i use 4/3 and an LC-1

but the experience should be similar

4/3 sync is 1/180th, power drops off in stops significantly beyond that

usually for fill i use 1/250th

 

i see Guy has responded to your post elsewhere

he would be more of a portrait photographer than me

[photorunner]

Thanks for sharing your experience.I'll try your settings. I too have a Metz 54 MZ3 but due to size constraints have opted to use the Sunpak or Vivitar.

 

Cheers,

Herb

[Picturetraveler]

Hello everybody

 

 

I was walking through a mediamarkt the other day and saw the Panasonic Lumix and the Leica Digilux 3 nicely installed next to one another...they really look the same...but what I noticed on the panasonic was a External flash DMW-FL360 ...so it got me thinking... Would it be possible that the contacts for the lumix are the same as the Digilux 3...and maybe as it's in the Leica family also the M8?

 

Anyone had a chance of testing the Panasonic flash?

 

Would be nice if it worked as you can bouce of the ceiling with it.

 

Regards from Gent

 

Marc

[scott kirkpatrick]

Hello everybody

 

 

I was walking through a mediamarkt the other day and saw the Panasonic Lumix and the Leica Digilux 3 nicely installed next to one another...they really look the same...but what I noticed on the panasonic was a External flash DMW-FL360 ...so it got me thinking... Would it be possible that the contacts for the lumix are the same as the Digilux 3...and maybe as it's in the Leica family also the M8?

 

Anyone had a chance of testing the Panasonic flash?

 

Would be nice if it worked as you can bouce of the ceiling with it.

 

Regards from Gent

 

Marc

 

Yes, that's what started this thread. The Panasonic (also Olympic) flashes have enough similarities that manual and auto flash work fine with the M8, permitting bounce, but they don't communicate with the camera except for triggering the flash.

 

scott

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[Bill Sievers]

I noticed that the latest issue of Leica magazine (name?) has an article on using Metx flashes with the M8.

[cme4brain]

I've searched but not much written regarding flash, either simple hot shoe or...

 

i can run my big lights from my wireless but have no simple compact or hotshoe flash.

 

what wre you all using?

 

my old sunpak 422D thyristor died leaving me with no quick and easy solution.

 

bill

 

Get on eBay and find yourself a used Metz 40MZ-3i. This IMHO is the best overall flash for the M8. Not many use the TTL capability of the M8 preferring instead to use the auto mode. The 40Mz is not as tall as the 54MZ, a great flash, but very ungainly sitting on top of the diminutive M8.