New M 240 focus is off?

[danedit28]

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Update: I received a call today from Leica NJ and I will be receiving my M240 tomorrow. 14 business days after I sent it in. Texas to New Jersey to Germany to New Jersey to Texas.

 

The only weird thing is that the technician in NJ said the frame lines are "hanging a bit low." They're sending me the camera anyway because we're leaving for vacation this weekend but they said they want to do a full replacement on the camera when we get back.

 

Have you ever heard of such a thing?

[Guest borge]

no offense to the other posters but I feel a Rant coming On:

 

when I got my M9-P the focus was out.... I posted some images on here- carefully taken on a tripod, with a cable release (on self timer even)- using a 1.4 magnifier, an approved focus chart and taking ones time... I got a heap of messages saying my tests were not ideal- even worthless, to test again, more scientifically, etc.

 

I couldn't help thinking: is it really so hard to test the focus on a Leica camera?

 

and

 

If it is so hard- that you can't even be sure- even with a tripod, magnifier, cable release, etc: then how the hell could you EVER focus the thing critically in the real world?

 

The long and short of it was that the camera was out and it is not so hard to test the focus on a Leica RF if your eyesight is decent and you have half a brain: just like it is not so hard to actually use the thing in the real world and focus it accurately.

 

Sometimes I got the impression from the experts that focusing that RF patch is a kind of elite esoteric science- its intricate detail known only to a few initiates of the 33rd degree ...

 

the odd thing was in different contexts the same folks seemed to imply that it was the easiest, fastest and most accurate focusing system found on Earth.

 

My Bet is Your Camera Is Out direct from the Factory (as is a common documented experience)- not You. Send it in.

 

It seems to me that the RF can get knocked out during transit. Seemingly the only other explanation is that the people calibrating these cameras in Solms are on Acid half the time and I refuse to believe that...

 

Hehe, I enjoyed reading your response. Some people tend to make things more complicated than it is. If you can't get sharp images easily with a Leica the rangefinder is most probably off, as you say, as the system is very simple to use.

 

Forget all those theorietical and scientific BS responses: if it doesn't feel right, it most probably isn't right.

[danedit28]

Received the 240 this morning and the focus is now spot on. Magic!

 

Unfortunately, my initial non-scientific tests are leading me to believe that the M240 sensor is not nearly as sharp as the M9 sensor but I'm about to embark on a two week trek so I should have a few thousand frames to look through when I return.

[Lindolfi]

Unfortunately, my initial non-scientific tests are leading me to believe that the M240 sensor is not nearly as sharp as the M9 sensor

 

Here's a direct comparison, same settings in LightRoom.

 

http://www.photoplaza.nl/lindolfi/sharpnessm240andm9.tif

[120]

Here's a direct comparison, same settings in LightRoom.

 

http://www.photoplaza.nl/lindolfi/sharpnessm240andm9.tif

 

What were the results/conclusions?

[Shade]

I personally find that the RF focusing patch of the m240 is dimmer than my previous M-E or M9, is it just me? Is there any way to brighten it? Thanks!

[Jeff S]

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I personally find that the RF focusing patch of the m240 is dimmer than my previous M-E or M9, is it just me? Is there any way to brighten it? Thanks!

 

Interesting, as many have reported the opposite, that the VF is brighter and the focusing patch more contrasty. Some surmise that this is due to less stray light resulting from the change to internal frame line illumination. Beyond that, others also report that the RF seems more accurate compared to other digital Ms, allowing for a better focusing experience.

 

Sorry that doesn't answer your question; just seems contrary to others, but what you see is what you see and that's what counts.

 

Jeff

[thighslapper]

I personally find that the RF focusing patch of the m240 is dimmer than my previous M-E or M9, is it just me? Is there any way to brighten it? Thanks!

 

You need them together to compare. Memory is fickle.

 

I have M240, M9-P and MM

 

M240 has the brightest...... and more importantly.... the more contrasty image of the 3.

The difference is not much, but enough to be easily noticeable in everyday use.

[hoppyman]

Mine is noticeably better side by side with my M9. Actually that describes the whole camera.

The frame line illumination is a real improvement too. I much prefer the white over the red though.

[Shade]

I think its just me. I just re-compared and my m240 is brighter. Sorry!

[bab]

It might be your eyesight or you may need several years of practice to focus the thing I finally figured it out shoot three images and if your lucky one will be in focus! Many people told me it takes practice so I looked on forums and other Internet locations it seems the standard answer always gets to the same point it's not whether the image is in focus its the composition of the image.

All the initial test files from the m240 or most of them were not tack focus. I have had my M9 calibrated many times my lens sent back and calibrated that helps but it's not a system that will produce consistent results. Maybe the technicians get it right for their eyes or for a certain distance and then we just expect it will focus the same for us at any distance.

 

I look at my images from my m9 differently now I dont care if there in focus tack sharp I just want to have images that are pleasing to me when printed. That's the key printing your images. If I want to shoot images that are uniformly in focus I find a tripod for me is a must with the M 9 and shooting people , my street work people I don't care mostly pictures of my granddaughter or close up faces is where I like to have the tack sharp images. Why I think we expect those results of course it's because we know the M glass or we have been told is so expensive because its the best and we know the sand they use is a very limited production sold mostly to leica sometimes maybe I think I should be always able to produce better images than what I get.

Check out the newest email from Leica camera AG hall of fame images Rene Burri tell me which image is tack sharp because to me they all look some what blurry!

 

Thanks for reading my babble.

 

Some days are like that.

[wlaidlaw]

Apologies if I missed a post relating to this but have you checked the infinity? If the infinity is off, this is a really simple adjustment on the RF roller with a 2mm hex key. I do not believe adjusting the infinity would void the warranty. If at some point, a lens has been mounted too firmly, this can be knocked out of adjustment. Before my M8 was upgraded, the infinity roller was always drifting off. Leica tightened it at the upgrade. A bright planet such as Jupiter makes a good infinitely distant object or failing that, the edge of the moon.

 

Once you have got the infinity correct, then check at closer (2 metres is ideal) again. I would download and print the Nikon focus chart, which is available free. In the end the intermediate rate screw on the RF arm elbow may need adjustment as well, which I would leave to the experts. There is sealer paint on this screw, so undoing it to change this setting, this would I am sure, invalidate the warranty. Adjusting the infinity, could be a simple and easy cure to your misfocus.

 

Wilson

[jonoslack]

I think the correct calibration of the new M is easier than the older M cameras. Changes seem to have been made to the rangefinder to reduce tolerances and improve accuracy.

 

I had two M9 bodies, and in the end I learned to use half of my lenses with one body, and the other half with the other body - sending in two bodies and 9 lenses is an expensive business!

 

When I started with the M last October I was really surprised to find that all my lenses seemed to focus properly - and this was easy to confirm using live view.

 

One way or another I've now used 7 M bodies, and all of them have been pretty good with all my lenses.

 

Of course - it's possible to have a badly calibrated camera (or lenses), it's just that experience (and other's experience as well) suggests that the new camera is much more likely to be right out of the box than an M9

 

Wilson - your infinity testing for focus is certainly conventional wisdom - but it's much easier to simply swap between the rangefinder and the EVF . . . if they agree and the images are sharp, then you should be in business

[wlaidlaw]

I think the correct calibration of the new M is easier than the older M cameras. Changes seem to have been made to the rangefinder to reduce tolerances and improve accuracy.

 

I had two M9 bodies, and in the end I learned to use half of my lenses with one body, and the other half with the other body - sending in two bodies and 9 lenses is an expensive business!

 

When I started with the M last October I was really surprised to find that all my lenses seemed to focus properly - and this was easy to confirm using live view.

 

One way or another I've now used 7 M bodies, and all of them have been pretty good with all my lenses.

 

Of course - it's possible to have a badly calibrated camera (or lenses), it's just that experience (and other's experience as well) suggests that the new camera is much more likely to be right out of the box than an M9

 

Wilson - your infinity testing for focus is certainly conventional wisdom - but it's much easier to simply swap between the rangefinder and the EVF . . . if they agree and the images are sharp, then you should be in business

 

Jono,

 

The issue is that if the lenses did not agree EFV to RF and I feel in the OP's case they are unlikely to do so, then you would still not know whether it was the infinity cam, the rate screw or both which were out of adjustment. By checking/correcting the infinity first, you can narrow the problem down. My first M240 was spot on. I have to admit I have not checked the replacement but I will now be a good boy and do so.

 

Wilson

[danedit28]

UPDATE:

 

May 29 - received new M 240.

June 3 - sent M back to Germany to fix back-focusing rangefinder

June 20 - received M from Germany - rangefinder perfect but technicians detected the frameline mechanism was faulty (vertically displaced)

July 10 - following some assignments, sent M back to Leica for full replacement

July 29 - received brand new replacement M***

 

***But guess what? The rangefinder on this brand new unit is back-focusing. The first thing I did after opening the box was to pull out the tripod and ruler and compare the LV focus peaking vs. the rangefinder and the focus is off by about a full inch at close distance.

 

So what next? Another 4+ weeks to send it back to Germany to have the rangefinder calibrated? Unbelievable...

[viramati]

I feel for you I really do. when I had problems with the first series of the fuji X100 I phoned them on a Monday. little box arrived on tuesday and was sent off on the same day. email from fuji on Wednesday to say camera had arrived and was fixed on the same day (new lens unit and on the 2nd occasion the hybrid finder was fixed). received the unit back on Thursday. Now thats what I call service. OK leica a smaller and the cameras are not so simple but for what you pay I really do feel that the service times are just!!!!%$£&&. In the Uk they closed the service centre down a few years ago which means everything has to go back to Germany which is another pain especially as when I first got the 8.2 and the focussing was out it was just a quick trip up to Milton Keynes and it was fixed in a couple of days. Instead of all these leica Boutiques they should have service centres!!!

[wlaidlaw]

David,

 

You got something fixed at Milton Keynes - well I never! After Stuart Bean left as service manager to run Bakers in Lewes, MK never managed to fix anything of mine. I sent back a Digilux 2 in late 2005 with a failing sensor. It was one of the first Digilux 2's sold so the sensor failure issue was not as well known at this time. It came back after 10 weeks with a report "all recalibrated". The image numbering had moved on precisely 2 shots, both of which were unfortunately for Leica left on the card. They showed a roll up cigarette smouldering in a tobacco tin on the optical workbench. The camera was just as bad as before. Stuart who had organised the return to MK hit the roof and was immediately on the phone to the MD of Leica UK, demanding a replacement camera for me. Two months later one finally arrived from Germany but I had moved on and was using a Sony R1 with APS-C sensor by that time and had an M8 on order, so I sold it as a new Digilux 2 but with no warranty.

 

Wilson

[Jeff S]

So what next? Another 4+ weeks to send it back to Germany to have the rangefinder calibrated? Unbelievable...

 

Seems you're in the States, so why not to NJ?

 

Another option is to call DAG (Don Goldberg) in Wisconsin and see what he might be able to do for you. While it will cost something, his timing might be far better, and it will be done right....the first time.

 

Jeff

[danedit28]

New evidence....

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[danedit28]

Seems you're in the States, so why not to NJ?

 

Another option is to call DAG (Don Goldberg) in Wisconsin and see what he might be able to do for you. While it will cost something, his timing might be far better, and it will be done right....the first time.

 

Jeff

 

At the current time, only Germany is qualified to service the rangefinder mechanism on the M 240. So you have to send it to NJ... and they send it to Germany... and then it goes back to NJ where they are required to inspect it and clean the sensor... then it gets returned to you. 4-5 weeks if you're lucky.