joeswe Posted May 28, 2013 Share #1 Posted May 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello, could somebody enlighten me regarding the cosmetic variations of the E43 spherical Lux? The reason I ask is that I had a look at a lens yesterday that I consider to purchase and there seems to be a "mismatch" between the serial number and the appearance which puzzles me. It is a black lens with the "scalloped" focus ring of the early Lux (1960s), but the serial number puts it in the 1980s (3,3 something IIRC). I always thought that the later e43 lenses up to the e46 version had that ugly "70s" look with the "knurled" focus ring... Thank you... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 Hi joeswe, Take a look here summilux 50 e43 cosmetic variations. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
joeswe Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share #2 Posted June 1, 2013 Bought the lens today, it is in beautiful condition with very minor signs of use and the price was reasonable (although not cheap, from a camera shop), so I couldn't resist. As you can see on the pics, the lens serial number is indeed from the 1980s. The focusing mount has the 60s style. Weight is identical to a 1960s chrome Lux version II. It came with a UVa Filter, a black metal cap with red felt and a 12586 hood. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205542-summilux-50-e43-cosmetic-variations/?do=findComment&comment=2336056'>More sharing options...
xalo Posted June 1, 2013 Share #3 Posted June 1, 2013 That's a beautiful piece, congrats. Should handle nicely, too. No idea re/origin, but it sure has the attributes of the older series, including the grid pattern of the base grip. Never seen this in a black chrome version, either... Writing this, curiosity takes me to LeicaWiki. Could this be the 1913-1983 anniversary version's clothes? Cheers, Alexander Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 1, 2013 Share #4 Posted June 1, 2013 Cannot be a "1913-1983"... though about in that s/n range, they have the engraving at base, and the finishing is the usual for the times. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! It's really an oddity... btw, I seem to remember that the "old" black Summiluxes, with the scalloped ring as yours, had the feet scale in red, not in yellow... could be they have used an old spare part to assemble this item ? Is worth noting that Lager, in his book on lenses, displays a Summilux 50 very next to yours (3.340.667) which has the standard focusing ring of that era. In your item, also the finishing of the ring at the base of the barrel seems to be of the old "fine-knurled" type, not of the modern style... and how is the "Germany" engraving ? I mean, the '80s lenses had the "LENS MADE IN GERMANY" phrase, whilst the "old-style" items had simply "GERMANY" So... I think that you have got anyway an interesting and uncommon item, whatever is the reason of the nonstandard ring : compliments !!! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! It's really an oddity... btw, I seem to remember that the "old" black Summiluxes, with the scalloped ring as yours, had the feet scale in red, not in yellow... could be they have used an old spare part to assemble this item ? Is worth noting that Lager, in his book on lenses, displays a Summilux 50 very next to yours (3.340.667) which has the standard focusing ring of that era. In your item, also the finishing of the ring at the base of the barrel seems to be of the old "fine-knurled" type, not of the modern style... and how is the "Germany" engraving ? I mean, the '80s lenses had the "LENS MADE IN GERMANY" phrase, whilst the "old-style" items had simply "GERMANY" So... I think that you have got anyway an interesting and uncommon item, whatever is the reason of the nonstandard ring : compliments !!! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205542-summilux-50-e43-cosmetic-variations/?do=findComment&comment=2336102'>More sharing options...
joeswe Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share #5 Posted June 1, 2013 Cannot be a "1913-1983"... though about in that s/n range, they have the engraving at base, and the finishing is the usual for the times. [ATTACH]379667[/ATTACH] It's really an oddity... btw, I seem to remember that the "old" black Summiluxes, with the scalloped ring as yours, had the feet scale in red, not in yellow... could be they have used an old spare part to assemble this item ? Is worth noting that Lager, in his book on lenses, displays a Summilux 50 very next to yours (3.340.667) which has the standard focusing ring of that era. In your item, also the finishing of the ring at the base of the barrel seems to be of the old "fine-knurled" type, not of the modern style... and how is the "Germany" engraving ? I mean, the '80s lenses had the "LENS MADE IN GERMANY" phrase, whilst the "old-style" items had simply "GERMANY" So... I think that you have got anyway an interesting and uncommon item, whatever is the reason of the nonstandard ring : compliments !!! Hm, there is no "Germany" phrase on the base... . By the way, the paint on that part of the lens mount looks like black paint (on close inspection with a magnifying glass one can see some very tiny blisters), while the rest of the focusing mount appears a bit less shiny, more like anodized black. I am not sure however, being a complete ignorant to the subtle differences in the Leica universe of "black". It was a private sale commissioned to a shop, maybe I can get into contact with the previous owner to find out how that lens came to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 1, 2013 Share #6 Posted June 1, 2013 Hm, there is no "Germany" phrase on the base... .By the way, the paint on that part of the lens mount looks like black paint (on close inspection with a magnifying glass one can see some very tiny blisters), while the rest of the focusing mount appears a bit less shiny, more like anodized black. I am not sure however, being a complete ignorant to the subtle differences in the Leica universe of "black". It was a private sale commissioned to a shop, maybe I can get into contact with the previous owner to find out how that lens came to be. Well... the existence of mixed black paint / black anodized items is known.... you can find references... (you can find also much stranger mixings, like this one for sale now : Newoldcamera ) The absence of any "Germany" reference looks a bit strange to me... the first items had "GERMANY" right to the distance scale (first picture, 1.7xx.xxx), then the "GERMANY" migrated to opposite to the DOF scale (as my 1.84x.xxx and, probably, the 2.0xx.xxx of the second picture) and finally "LENS MADE IN GERMANY" in the same location (3rd picture) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I found in my archives another Summilux very close to yours (3.340.433)... with the Germany engraving one would expect Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I found in my archives another Summilux very close to yours (3.340.433)... with the Germany engraving one would expect ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205542-summilux-50-e43-cosmetic-variations/?do=findComment&comment=2336191'>More sharing options...
joeswe Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share #7 Posted June 1, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thank you for the pictures, Luigi, that helps to put everything a bit in perspective. The "Germany" reference is indeed missing. It is neither on the base between the screws nor on the ring next to the distance scale. I notice the screw heads at the base of my lens appear to be slightly curved, while the screw heads on the late lens referenced by you (the one that is very close to my serial number) are flat. I guess this also shows that the base of mine is "old style". Concerning the interesting question of the yellow vs. red feet markings, I searched a bit on the web and found pictures of one more black Lux v2 with yellow markings and the scalloped focusing ring on a Japanese site. It is said to be "all black chrome" though. The serial number of that lens however is in the 2,22xx range, so appears to be correct for the focusing mount used. It has the same slightly curved screw heads as mine, but differs in that the two screws seen right next to the aperture markings on the base are missing on mine (like they do on the early sample posted by you with the red markings). Unfortunately one cannot see if there is a "Germany" reference on the base of the lens: http://blog-imgs-32.fc2.com/n/u/v/nuvolari/L1050323.jpg One possible explanation for the missing "Germany" reference... could be a lens put together from three "donors": a very early "black paint" base (from a lens with original red markings, when the Germany reference was still next to the distance scale), a focusing ring from a 1960s black chrome batch like the one on the Japanese site (when presumably the "Germany" reference had already moved to the base) and finally an optical unit taken from a 1980s lens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 1, 2013 Share #8 Posted June 1, 2013 Who knows ? In my archive I found a 2.34x.xxx still with the old scalloped ring (...but with yellow feet scale) and a 2.308.xxx with the "new" ring... the transition hasn't been so straight.... but the high s/n of yours makes indeed to think of some "Transplant" or "reconstruction".... I wonder if a possible explanation can also be that the owner of an "old" Summilux did suffer a bad damage of the optics (crash of the front lens ?) and Leitz simply mounted the front assembly of a new item.... Summilux was a costly item and maybe the repair was worth... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeswe Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share #9 Posted October 31, 2013 Who knows ? In my archive I found a 2.34x.xxx still with the old scalloped ring (...but with yellow feet scale) and a 2.308.xxx with the "new" ring... the transition hasn't been so straight.... but the high s/n of yours makes indeed to think of some "Transplant" or "reconstruction".... I wonder if a possible explanation can also be that the owner of an "old" Summilux did suffer a bad damage of the optics (crash of the front lens ?) and Leitz simply mounted the front assembly of a new item.... Summilux was a costly item and maybe the repair was worth... Some news on this topic... I found a prospective buyer for my Summilux (it's not easy to part with it, but I have a second chrome Lux from the 60s and cannot afford to have two of this lenses lying around) and in the process did some additional investigations. I stumbled over an auction at Westlicht in 2008 where a Lux 50 with the same scalloped focusing ring and number 2.345.648 was sold. 176: LEICA: Summilux 1.4/50mm black paint : Lot 176 It has identical properties regarding the mount and the focusing ring, especially the missing "Made in Germany" reference and the color of the distance scale, but also the form of the screws. And indeed the Leica Wiki lists the serial numbers of the batch in question in the following way: 2345301 2347300 Summilux f= 5 cm 1:1.4 (black-KFR+UFR) 1969 So my guess is now, that the lens was originally from the 1969 batch and the optic module later replaced at the factory... It seems you were on the right track, Luigi... Thanks again for you input! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted November 5, 2013 Share #10 Posted November 5, 2013 Someone put it together from parts, or more likely was a factory prototype not intended for resale. Things like this get out occasionally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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