Request for comment from Leica re M(240) delivery (or lack thereof)

[erl]

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You have my sympathy mirekti. Being 'cameraless' is something I can't imagine. Can a friend lend you a camera? Or better still, if you have a definite order with a dealer, they may give you a loaner camera of any brand, just to get you by. Worth asking.

[leohong]

I was number 10 when I placed my order in September. Now, I am number 9. This is a dealer in New York City. I paid $1000 deposit to this dealer. Hopelessly disappointed by Leica.

[erl]

Leohong, it was not difficult to predict this delay in principle. Perhaps not the length, but then, 'how long is a piece of string'?

 

I don't think you can entirely blame Leica for your premature expectation. Whilst not (yet) having ordered an M myself, I clearly expected this sort of delay, as did many others. Your impatience cannot be transferred to Leica. That you paid $1000 deposit is not the fault of Leica, but rather the dealer. However I do understand your concerns and can only advise patience as nothing you can do will change it. Remember, Leica are not actually taking 'long lunch breaks' in order to slow things down.

[ALD]

Leica should have a central database and online order form, whereby every single M is ordered from a webpage you can do it yourself or you can get your dealer to do it. You can indicate which dealer you want to pick up from. every Leica M should have the same price around the world , none of this BS like you have in countries like Australia where the camera costs 15% more. Everybody can chip in to fund the differences in shipping and customs and excise costs. The only thing that should be different is the gst or vat. That way we know exactly how many orders there are anywhere and how many get filled.

[erl]

And if you want a BMW or Maserati or Ford or Chevy, do you want an online ordering database for that to? It may be reasonable for some companies, not so for others.

 

Mind you, I am pissed off that it costs me more, in Oz, than it does elsewhere. But then, that IS when I order online if the economics stack up. I could well fly to NY when buying significant investments and have the trip thrown in. Borderline stuff, but possible.

[Guest tanks]

...

Mind you, I am pissed off that it costs me more, in Oz, than it does elsewhere. ...

 

Nothing stops people from ordering from overseas and have it shipped in. Just recently I bought an MM, and a 50mm Summilux from the UK. Saved about $2.5K between the two purchases.

 

Now, I had to pay $85 brokerage fee for the lens, and nothing for the MM. Of course, depending on the country it could be different. The US has no customs fees on cameras and lenses imported for personal use.

 

Pricing for the M would also save about $400 - shipping, still a discount. Of course, for a Brit it is the other way around as they have a 20% VAT.

[erl]

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I think it a moveable feast. One needs to do the assessment when actually buying. I have always had the idea of a trip to NY to buy a large purchase. The saving would go close to paying for my 'holiday'. But things do change.

[k-hawinkler]

Nothing stops people from ordering from overseas and have it shipped in. Just recently I bought an MM, and a 50mm Summilux from the UK. Saved about $2.5K between the two purchases.

 

Now, I had to pay $85 brokerage fee for the lens, and nothing for the MM. Of course, depending on the country it could be different. The US has no customs fees on cameras and lenses imported for personal use.

 

Pricing for the M would also save about $400 - shipping, still a discount. Of course, for a Brit it is the other way around as they have a 20% VAT.

 

 

Hmm, that's interesting.

I have now paid US import duties three times for used lenses.

In one case the USPS mailman requested payment before he handed over the package.

In the two other cases I got a phone call from an FedEx employee requesting information to help him fill out the customs forms about the content of the package. Used lens wasn't good enough. He liked that it was made out of metal and glass. He didn't like other materials like rubber. A few days after FedEx delivered the package they sent the bill for the customs duties. I have also received a number of lenses and Visoflex adapters and rings from abroad without having to pay import fees. I guess that depends on the value declared by the sending party.

[rramesh]

Leica should have a central database and online order form, whereby every single M is ordered from a webpage you can do it yourself or you can get your dealer to do it. You can indicate which dealer you want to pick up from. every Leica M should have the same price around the world , none of this BS like you have in countries like Australia where the camera costs 15% more. Everybody can chip in to fund the differences in shipping and customs and excise costs. The only thing that should be different is the gst or vat. That way we know exactly how many orders there are anywhere and how many get filled.

Check with the ladies on the process to order a Birken bag from Hermes.

[StephenPatterson]

Hmm, that's interesting.

I have now paid US import duties three times for used lenses.

In one case the USPS mailman requested payment before he handed over the package.

In the two other cases I got a phone call from an FedEx employee requesting information to help him fill out the customs forms about the content of the package. Used lens wasn't good enough. He liked that it was made out of metal and glass. He didn't like other materials like rubber. A few days after FedEx delivered the package they sent the bill for the customs duties. I have also received a number of lenses and Visoflex adapters and rings from abroad without having to pay import fees. I guess that depends on the value declared by the sending party.

 

There is an exemption for lenses which can be mounted to a CCTV camera, and M mount lenses definitely qualify. When I lived in the US I took advantage of this legal loophole on several occasions, and it was actually told to me by a very nice FedEx employee.

[pop]

For example what is the point of launching a new product and generating a lot of interest for it but having no stock to sell

 

What Erl said plus: Leica has spent millions in the last few years to increase production capacities. Given the nature of their products and the way they are manufactured, there are limits on how fast they can grow.

 

Hence, the disparity between supply and demand appears to be due to the desirability of their new product lines.

 

Speaking of "generating interest": I don't think I have seen any advertisements to speak of. The products appear to be selling themselves.

[thondup]

Leica Taiwan is getting two black M 240 next week and all issues settled they say.

[HV25]

HV25 and mirekti, emotions like yours are understandable but for whatever reason do not figure in the Leica business plan, apparently. Your only choice is, 'get used to it'. Whilst you clearly are not happy, the experience is not exclusive to Leica. The company is notorious for poor communication to customers in such circumstances. I don't see it changing.

 

Offering advice as above is not really productive. They are working to their business model and are not likely to take advice from a 'disgruntled few'. A small production operation like Leica is very easily disrupted by problems such as the lug disaster. I don't know if that has impacted on production line work but it would not have helped. There may be other issues that we know nothing of. That would be normal in production scenarios.

 

Patience is all you can exert, so meanwhile go shoot your current camera. The same subjects are there whatever your gear in hand.

 

erl - with all respect you didn't get my point. And ironically your response might reflect the attitude of Leica management towards its customers.

 

Its bad enough for a company to have an issue meeting supply with demand, its worse to be seen unable to manage it. Nobody who is passionate about a brand and its products should 'get used to it'. And for the company itself to be seen to do so is not good. I guess Leica's strategic investor will agree.

 

Trust me I am patient but my overall impression of Leica isn't helped by the 8 months waiting time without any communication from my beloved Leica store or the company overall. And that is a shame.

 

Enough from me.

[erl]

HV25. You've been waiting 8 months for the M!!

Can't recall precisely when it was launched but I doubt it was 8 months ago.

 

Actually I think I did get your point but don't agree with it, that's all. I tried to offer mildly palliative explanations (of my own invention, not Leica's). The only thing I can add is that I hope you M comes through soon. I am sure that will change the expression on your face, hopefully.

[01af]

Can't recall precisely when it was launched but I doubt it was 8 months ago.

First rumours started floating around last Summer; official announcement was at Photokina in September, 2012 (i. e. eight months ago); sales launch was on February 28th, 2013.

 

And by the way, the lug problem got fixed by the first week of April. So that's no issue anymore.

[HV25]

HV25. You've been waiting 8 months for the M!!

Can't recall precisely when it was launched but I doubt it was 8 months ago.

 

Actually I think I did get your point but don't agree with it, that's all. I tried to offer mildly palliative explanations (of my own invention, not Leica's). The only thing I can add is that I hope you M comes through soon. I am sure that will change the expression on your face, hopefully.

 

you bet it will turn to if it does

 

I've put my name on the waiting list in September last year fact. And paid a deposit.

[jrp]

Leica should have a central database and online order form, whereby every single M is ordered from a webpage you can do it yourself or you can get your dealer to do it.

 

Actually, that is more or less what happens. Dealers have access to an ordering database -- the channel, and they can tell from there what's moving. A UK dealer that I spoke to earlier in the week told me that nothing was moving. Maybe they are selling current production to China, if there is any.

[frank_dernie]

I ordered mine in September from the dealer I have used before. They have had no M cameras yet and have not been able to ascertain when the first may come.

Given that my M9 still works fine I am going to cancel my order.

Perhaps Leica are trying to get rid of their smaller dealers, however well establisher they are.

As long as my DMR keeps working the main attraction of the M over the M9 to me, use of my R lenses, is not enough to compensate my irritation...

[AlanJW]

September was when I placed my order, so it is indeed nearly 8 months now.

 

I happen to agree that some communication about the supply is appropriate from Leica. And I disagree with the notion that dealers know what is in the pipeline. Mine at least doesn't know about shipments from Leica NJ until the day before. I have a trip coming up in June and still have no idea whether I will have a camera or not beforehand. I am not going crazy because I kept my M9 but it would be nice to know and it is frustrating to hear nothing at all.

 

No one of us is terribly important to Leica in the grand scheme, so I don't expect Leica to call me, but apparently I am not alone and my dealer is not alone in being completely in the dark, so a general statement about where deliveries stand would be appreciated.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[dwbell]

No one of us is terribly important to Leica in the grand scheme, so I don't expect Leica to call me, but apparently I am not alone and my dealer is not alone in being completely in the dark, so a general statement about where deliveries stand would be appreciated.

 

Similarly, I've decided that no one camera supplier is terribly important to me in the grand scheme of things. I shall be channelling my money to the one, or one's who I consider are taking my photography needs seriously. In Leica style, I'll not be announcing the results, or timelines.

 

In the businesses I've run this is the worst possible situation. Your clients leave and they couldn't be bothered to tell you why. What do you change? How do you fix "it"? Tough questions. Can all be avoided so, so easily. It starts with an attitude change...