Where to invest, new M240 or used Noctilux 0.95?

[MRJohn]

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Hi all,

 

I start with a quote from the Erwin Puts website: "So what are the intentions for 2013? - Do not buy a new camera for at least two years, but invest time and energy in exploiting the possibilities of the current one".

 

So here I am, thinking what to do. I have the best camera I have ever owned, a M9P, with a few lenses (all Summicron line). I do predominantly B&W, but occasionally color, so the MM is out of the question (besides, it is a technological oldtimer build around an excellent sensor).

 

The M240 seems to have a few advantages over my M9P, but the main reason to consider it despite the advice offered above is the fact that I would love to have a somewhat better ISO performance, weather sealing (though I am sure I would anyway do whatever it takes to protect it) and another 2 years warranty (peace of mind).

All the rest, I do not really need or is just to small a step to consider upgrading now (speed is better but still slow, screen is nice but not retina, focus lines and Liveview might help a bit, battery is better but swapping is not a big deal...). Normally, I'd rather wait for the next version of the M. Like with Apple products, you can easily skip a generation, don't get crazy about the incremental benefit nicely worked out in plenty of reviews. Do you really need all of that? But I would like to overcome the ISO deficiency.

 

Which brings me to the Noctilux 0.95. I could get a slightly used one for a similar price as a M240. It would enable better evening shots and mitigate the ISO deficiencies of the M9P. How does the bokeh compare against my last generation (non-ASPH) Summicron 50 when both are shot open? Would the Noctilux enable me to make really different pictures at 0.95 compared to my Summicron at 2.0 mounted to an M240 with the ISO cranked up a bit?

 

So the question is, a M9P with a Noctilux at 0.95 vs a M240 with a Summicron at 2.0 in a similar situation. What would be the difference in those pictures with regard to bokeh, extraction of what I am focusing on vs background, dynamic range in color and B&W, background lights in evening shots... If the M240 with the Summicron is almost equal, I probably go for it (because it is a smaller, lighter package).

 

Thanks for reading through, I am interested in your advice.

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[Guest borge]

If you are looking for an investment your only choice is the Noctilux.

The M240 will depreciate in price quickly.

 

If you were coming from a M8 I would advise you to get the M240. But since you have a M9-P I am pretty sure that you will get more photographic possibilities with a Nocti than with a M240 - unless you really need live view for some specific work.

[Guest malland]

John, take two aspirins and get a Summilux-50 pre-ASPH. If the aspirins don't work, get an M-Monochrom. And, oh, don't use the word "investment" when considering photographic equipment.

 

—Mitch/Potomac/MD

Lanka Footsteps [M-Monochrom/Sri Lanka]

[doug_m]

The Noctilux 0.95 is a very specialized lens. Unless you want it's very shallow DOF at 0.95 or its low light capability I would consider a 50 mm 1.4. The 50 lux ASPH is a superb lens and it is tiny compared to the Noctilux which is a beast. Most importantly the lux focuses down to 0.7 meters whereas the Noctilux allows for 1.0 meters only. This is a huge difference.

 

The new M type 240 is superb and a huge improvement over the M9. The new shutter is fantastic as compared to the M9 shutter.

 

I have used all of the equipment mentioned in this post. I'll bet most seasoned M users who have also used all of the gear mentioned here will agree with me.

[rramesh]

Don't consider anything as an investment unless it will realistically be usable and last a generation or more. In this case high quality and superior handmade workmanship of mechanical instruments will be more valued than anything electronic.

 

With an M you get ISO improvement over all focal lengths and not just 50. If this is important I would consider the M. Of course you get all the other benefits. If you don't need these, you just bought for yourself a depreciating asset that would be no better than your already depreciated M9.

[Jager]

Agree with Bo. The Noctilux is a truly special lens, one that offers a signature wholly unlike that which you can achieve with anything else. It opens up a realm of photography closed to most.

 

There is no amount of iso fiddling or anything else you can do with a Summicron (even the new APO version) that can get you the unique palette that the Noct offers.

 

The M-240 is a terrific camera, and a notable improvement over what Leica has offered before. But its benefits mostly accrue to its feature set and general maturation as a digital rangefinder platform. From a strict IQ standpoint, its lead over the M9(P) is modest.

[kdriceman]

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The Noctilux will still be a valuable, unique and useful tool long after the M240 has gone to the digital scrap heap.

[MRJohn]

Dear all,

 

thanks for the feedback so far. Let me change the title to:

 

"What to choose, new M240 or used Noctilux 0.95". The term "investment" is a bit misleading in this context, let's not get further down that depressing route I know the Nocitilux is the BETTER investment FINANCIALLY, but that wasn't the intended question. I mean "photographically" considered the unmet needs mentioned.

[k_g_wolf ✝]

Since you own the excellent M9 already, my recommendation would be:

go towards the lens. LEICA aficionados (most likely) have to go through quite some

BLACKWATER-priceincreases in the future. With the current NOCTI you are on a good route

not to loose too much ...

 

Enjoy the artistic potential of this beast, you will love it!

 

 

Best

GEORG

[01af]

Unless you plan to adapt lots of legacy SLR lenses to the new M, in the long run you'll have more fun with the Noctilux. When in doubt, always prefer lenses over camera bodies. But you wouldn't go wrong with either option.

[Jeff S]

 

The M240 seems to have a few advantages over my M9P....(snip) and another 2 years warranty (peace of mind)....

 

 

... Would the Noctilux enable me to make really different pictures at 0.95 compared to my Summicron at 2.0 mounted to an M240 with the ISO cranked up a bit?....

 

 

Regarding point one, buy insurance for all of your gear and get real peace of mind. That will protect you in all circumstances.

 

Regarding point two, rent the camera and the lens and see for yourself. Only you can determine results based on your own pics, your own workflow, and your own output requirements.

 

Invest in yourself.

 

Jeff

[tobey bilek]

240 will get you slightly bigger prints. Remember since we are talking area, not linear numbers, 18 to 24 is not hugely significant. You need to have 4x the pixels to double the area. 2x to go from 11x14 to 16 x 20.

 

If there is some feature you need like video or better high iso, then that can be the deciding factor.

 

.95 is very small depth of field, not my cup of tea but perhaps yours.

[sblitz]

I have been thinking along same lines as owner of an M9 and concluded that for now I would rather spend the money on lens or classes or a phot trip. When I see how many great shots have been taken by the M9 and still many more using film Ms then one can see that for someone who does not use the camera for professional purposes like shouting a wedding or has a closet of R lenses looking for a home the M9 will do just fine for now

[algrove]

Invest does not fit digital bodies unless you are a politician who uses the term too loosely. Possibly only some M and R lenses are investments, but over the last few months that has become a bit doggy too.

[BerndReini]

I agree with investing in a photo trip. Two years ago I took a five day dedicated photo trip with a good photographer friend of mine and it was one of the most satisfying photographic experiences of my life.

 

I love Porsches and very experienced drivers say if you already own any Porsche you will improve your lap time much more by taking driving lessons than by buying a faster car.

 

Aside from that, if I could get a Noctilux .95 at the price of an M I would jump on it either way.

[tmldds]

I just got a Nocti f/1 and love it so much that my 50 Lux asph has not been touched. I may even consider the latest Nocti and sell all other lenses.

[Guest borge]

I have been thinking along same lines as owner of an M9 and concluded that for now I would rather spend the money on lens or classes or a phot trip. When I see how many great shots have been taken by the M9 and still many more using film Ms then one can see that for someone who does not use the camera for professional purposes like shouting a wedding or has a closet of R lenses looking for a home the M9 will do just fine for now

 

Photo trips and workshops is worth much more than ANY camera gear.

 

1. You learn a whole lot.

2. You get new friends and your network will expand.

3. You get to see nice places (depends on what workshops you attend).

4. You actually get to use the gear you have in ways that walking around in your town/country (places that you are used to) usually never will do.

5. Fresh eyes and locations breaths new life into existing gear.

 

If I could choose between spending money on a Noctilux 0.95 or 2-4 remote photo workshops I'd do the workshops without hesitation. I've already scheduled two workshops for this year, and I will go on more trips as well. Shooting the same shit (same city/country/places) every day with different lenses or cameras is BORING.

[k-hawinkler]

Couldn't you take portraits of different folks?

That should be interesting, no?

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[Paul J]

It depends what you're looking for. Since the image from an M9 closely resembles that from an M240, I would personally go for the Noctilux. It is entirely personal though as what I, myself, get from that lens will never be equalled by a body that produces are fairly similar result. My Noctilux leaves me gobsmacked. More so than any other piece of equipment I have.

 

If you are looking for a camera that makes taking pictures easier, a tiny bit extra resolution, the extra features and a bit more refinement then go for the M240.

 

I will go out on a limb and say you will be adding more to your pictures with a Noctilux if you like the look it produces (it seems you do!).

 

Good luck making the decision.

[Paul J]

A Noctilux really is an investment. It's a hell of a lot of money but you get an instant return in the results in your pictures. To me it's worth every penny.

 

The monetary gain/return I receive from lenses is completely irrelevant to me as I never intend to sell them. Nice to know it's there though I suppose.