Canon 17mm/4 TS-E tilt/shift on Leica M..

[AlanG]

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Very nice and much better locations. I was getting concerned that Raymond Burr was going to realize you were onto him and would try to eliminate you.

[dierk]

sorry, more test shots

 

I wanted to compare:

 

• the 17mm TS-E shifted as stitched panorama with
  
• the CV 12mm/5.6 super wide and
  
• the results of a "conventional stitched panorama" made by moving the camera around the axis.
  

I did not manage to position the camera perfectly parallel to the building, but this is not so important for the result.

 

All images with Leica M Monochrom,

all at f/8

no filter used

camera positioned horizontally

camera not moved between the shots

 

(click for larger images, but not full res.)

 

with Voigtländer Ultra Wide Heliar 12mm/5.6

 

with Canon 17mm TS-E tilt/shift

stitch of 3 images: center, shift right and shift left

 

first result:

the stitched image of the Canon 17mm is wider that 12mm and with higher resolution

but: only static objects!

 

Part two is following

[dierk]

Part two of the comparison:

 

All images with Leica M Monochrom,

all at f/8

no filter used

camera positioned horizontally

camera moved around the axis between the shots!

with Leica Super-Elmar 21mm

stitch of 6 images portrait with MS ICE

(you get the same result with CS and photomerge automatic)

resolution is great but distortion is unacceptable for architecture

 

 

stitch of 6 images portrait with PS CS5 photomerge: cylindric

full image after the photomerge

 

crop of the above image to the usable center part

distortion is corrected but the resolution is unacceptable

 

result for me:

stitching by moving the camera as I did up to now is OK for landscapes and nature in general

but for architecture the Canon 17mm TS-E is just fantastic!!

 

have fun

and ... stitch as stitch can

 

dierk

[dierk]

Part two of the comparison:

 

All images with Leica M Monochrom,

all at f/8

no filter used

camera positioned horizontally

camera moved around the axis between the shots!

with Leica Super-Elmar 21mm

 

I want to ad one important info:

the distance from the camera to the wall was 3,5 m!

for all images in the previous two posts

[dierk]

the correct adapter?

 

here in Wiki you can find a large table of flange focal distance (FFD)

(also known as the flange-to-film distance, flange focal depth, flange back distance (FBD), flange focal length (FFL), or register)

This is for Leica M mount 27.80 mm and for Canon EF mount 44.00 mm. That means, the adapter for Canon EF to Leica M should be 44-27.8=16.2mm. My adapter has 16mm +-0.02mm, measured at different spots. Therefor I assume, that the adapter is OK and does not produce any problems.

 

Novoflex is known as a producer of high quality products. I would pay more for a perfect adapter and so I asked them, if they have or plan an adapter LM to EOS.

The answer was NO

Ein Adapter für diese Kombination ist momentan nicht geplant.

So much on the adapter problem.

It will sound boring to many, but using more and more mirrorless cameras and the wish to use the lenses we already have, this question will become more important in the near future.

 

dierk

[wlaidlaw]

Adriano Lolli SLR to M adapters seem to be garnering a good reputation. One benefit is that they will make them with 28/90 mounts and coding grooves, so you can access the R menu if you want to. I will go them if I decide I need a Contax to M adapter. If there is no sign of the Leica R to M adapter after yet another month. I will get their R to M adapter. Chris Tribble has a Lolli R to M adapter sitting waiting for him at his house but he is away. He is going to report on it when he gets back on the 20th.

 

Wilson

[wlaidlaw]

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Has anyone tried video with a tilt shift lens as yet. I think this could be interesting. The Canon 17 TS is probably a bit too wide for this but the other TS lenses should be fine. My Hartblei Super Rotator 80mm TS appears to be heading towards the UK on the back of a snail. 10 days after I bought it and it has only just hit the central post office in Kiev

 

Wilson

[dierk]

Has anyone tried video with a tilt shift lens as yet. I think this could be interesting. The Canon 17 TS is probably a bit too wide for this but the other TS lenses should be fine. My Hartblei Super Rotator 80mm TS appears to be heading towards the UK on the back of a snail. 10 days after I bought it and it has only just hit the central post office in Kiev

 

Wilson

 

I am not too much interested in video, but I plan to try it (for example in the church "Michel" in Hamburg), when my M240 will finally arrive

 

dierk

[wlaidlaw]

I am not too much interested in video, but I plan to try it (for example in the church "Michel" in Hamburg), when my M240 will finally arrive

 

dierk

 

I was watching a video taken with a 5DMk3 in New York, with the lens tilted up to give a very narrow and toy like field of focus. It was an interesting effect. Given my various dire efforts with video, as my kids were growing up, school sports days and concerts etc, I don't think video falls within my skill sets either. The only upside is now that they are all grown up and married, I can have a good laugh showing the videos to the grandchildren. I have had the tapes all transferred to digital, when I had the few cine films I had taken in the 1970's, digitised as well.

 

Wilson

[dierk]

Test: Canon 17mm TS-E on Leica M9 @ f/8

composition of 13 shifted images, one picture on every shift position and center, stitched with ICE,

and for wide angle comparison overlaid with real (!!) images of the

 

• Voigtländer CV12mm (red),
  
• Leica Super-Elmar 18mm (green) and
  
• Leica Super-Elmar 21mm (blue)
  

 

If this is new for you:

 

Shift lenses, what is this?

You may know, that shooting buildings with a wide angle lens get distorted, when holding up the camera to get the whole building (just an example of an application of this type of lenses).

 

Shift lenses are special lenses, that can be moved out of the center axis by a special mechanics in order to avoid vertical distortions of for example buildings. To get any direction out of center, this mechanics can be moved around the optical axis of the whole lens. These lenses have a much biger images circle than normal lenses, which cover just a bit more that the diagonal of the sensor/film.

 

What does this image show?

it is a combination of 13 images made out of all possible single images, that the Canon 17mm TS-E can capture out of the image circle by shifting the lens to the extreme positions and rotating it for every shot by 30°. Normally a shift lens is used to take one shot. This image shows the possible extreme positions, to where you can move the camera/sensor for a shot. For buildings for example you keep the camera in horizontal position and move the lens upwards (the camera seems to look upwards) within the image circle and the building on the image stays vertical without any distortions!

The image of this 17mm lens is about the same as the green line of the Leica Super-Elmar 18mm and you will see, that there is a lot of space around it for movements in any direction. Besides just taking only one images you can shoot to (or more) images by moovin the lens to the left and the right position and get a panorama without any distortion. The same applies for portrait orientation.

 

This image shows the flexibility with a T/S lens and with this special 17mm super wide you see, that you can get even wider than the extreme wide Voigtländer 12mm with better IQ in the corners and no problem with colored edges.

still confused or want to know more?

 

this is a more simple construction, my first shift lens PC Nikkor 35mm from 25 years ago.

 

here is Wiki:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilt_shift_lens

 

more on the tilt possibilities, when I get my new Leica M with live view

dierk

[dierk]

Test: Canon 17mm TS-E on Leica M9

two pictures of "making of" to give you an imagination of the distances of the foreground,

pictures made with NEX-7 and 24mm Zeiss = 35mm on FF (about)

 

I fixed the distance ring with tape, as it is very loose and can be moved unintended while handling the little knobs for shift and tilting the lens

 

dierk

[dierk]

Leica M9 with Canon 17mm TS-E

stitch of 3 images, center and shift left and right,

HDR

(click)

 

HDR

 

dierk

[dierk]

Leica M9 with Canon 17mm TS-E

 

stitch of 3 images (portrait), center and shiftl left and right

Image size about 7000x5200 pix.

(click)

 

an example with very close foreground

the images fit exactly, no problems for the stitching,

foreground very often creates big problems

 

full frame 17mm strait shot, no shift, no stitch

for comparison with stitched images

 

 

Leica M9 with Canon 17mm TS-E

mounted on Canon TSE Tripod Collar from Hartblei

 

dierk

[dierk]

Reinfeld Mühlenmuseum

 

camera position corrected after shift (left/right) on macro rail +- 12mm to compensate the movement of the front lens.

 

full shift of 12mm is not recomended, but I wanted to see, how good the outer edges are - not too good.

 

PP: LR4, only exposure, contrast and WB, no correction of CA.

full image size about 8500x3300 pixel

(click)

 

 

dierk

[dierk]

this is not a Leica image!

 

it is made with the Canon 17mm/4 TS-E tilt/shift on the

NEX7 with the Metabones EF to E Mount Smart Adapter II.

 

For this kind of image I planed the new Leica M, but I found it useless due to many limitations and gave it back to Leica. For example a fixed focus magnification field in the center is absolutely useless for tilting lenses.

 

stitch of 3 images (landscape), center and shift left and right to the not recommended maximum of 12mm, while lens is tilted for DOF from foreground to background. The outer edges are not usable, but I wanted to show the whole image (about 10.000x4.000 pix.).

 

f/9, PP: LR4

 

 

1:1 crops:

(click for full res.)

foreground

 

background

 

too bad, that Leica missed some good design opportunities!

 

dierk

[HeinzX]

It is interesting, to see the pictures and to hear from the possibility to use the TS-E 17 mm with a Leica or other non Canon cameras. But in my opinion the best way to use this lens without a adapter on a Canon - i.e. on a 5 D III (as I do now). The lens is great for architecture and some other purposes - but with a Leica M I would rahter use a 18mm Super Elmar.

[01af]

What is wrong?

Seems the adapter is too short by approx. 0.15 mm or thereabouts. On top of that, the lens seems to have some field curvature, at least at closer focus.

 

 

This is for Leica M mount 27.80 mm and for Canon EF mount 44.00 mm. That means the adapter for Canon EF to Leica M should be 44 - 27.8 = 16.2 mm. My adapter is 16 mm ± 0.02 mm [...]. Therefore I assume the adapter is OK and does not produce any problems.

No, it is not that easy. Unless you know exactly how the flange distances are to be measured then you cannot simply compute the differences between them. For example, the Konica KM bayonet's flange distance is often stated as 28.00 mm even though in fact it's exactly the same as the Leica M bayonet's.

[dierk]

It is interesting, to see the pictures and to hear from the possibility to use the TS-E 17 mm with a Leica or other non Canon cameras. But in my opinion the best way to use this lens without a adapter on a Canon - i.e. on a 5 D III (as I do now). The lens is great for architecture and some other purposes - but with a Leica M I would rahter use a 18mm Super Elmar.

Heinz,

I went there again today and tried it with the 21mm Super-Elmar (the 17mm on APS-C is like 24mm FF, so I used the 21mm to get close). The images are very Leica-like sharp in the focus area (I used 2m at f/9) but the foreground and background is far less sharp than the 17mm Canon TSE - but the edges of the Canon are not too good either.

 

On the APS-C one does not use the full images circle but still I am not sure, if this lens is usable for much tilt?

 

dierk

[HeinzX]

Dierk,

 

I use the TS-E 17 mm on my 5 D III practically only in the shift mode or without any adjustment in normal mode. In both cases it ist a perfect lens on the Canon.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[dierk]

Canon 17mm TS-E on NEX-7 with Metabones Canon EF Lens to Sony NEX Smart Adapter II

 

the adapter is very solid built with built in tripod foot!

 

lens shifted upwards

mounted sideways on the macro rail for compensation of the movement of the lens for horizontal shifted panoramas

 

dierk