thighslapper Posted April 4, 2013 Share #81 Posted April 4, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) More with M240 first again.... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/201589-comparison-of-m9-and-m240/?do=findComment&comment=2290624'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 4, 2013 Posted April 4, 2013 Hi thighslapper, Take a look here Comparison of M9 and M240. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
thighslapper Posted April 4, 2013 Share #82 Posted April 4, 2013 and M9; Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/201589-comparison-of-m9-and-m240/?do=findComment&comment=2290626'>More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 4, 2013 Share #83 Posted April 4, 2013 again..... reality is nearer the daylight version of the M9. I do not have any comparison shots of humans ...... and my partner is camera shy ....... but here are a couple of shots from indoors with very difficult mixed lighting and 2500-3200 iso on the M240. first is Auto WB from the camera..... truly, truly awful second is Auto WB in LR4...... just awful third is using dropper on the white/grey silk blouse..... looks ok to me Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/201589-comparison-of-m9-and-m240/?do=findComment&comment=2290636'>More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 4, 2013 Share #84 Posted April 4, 2013 Another trio ....... this time corrected for the pearls on the blouse sleeve as a neutral reference ...... this can be marginally improved more by dialling out a bit more red...... as in the last image .... but one face gets better and the other gets worse ... more a matter of preference really again the out of camera WB is terrible..... and LR marginally better..... bearing in mind the use of make-up the skin tones look ok to me..... I'm not sure how the M9 would fare in similar conditions..... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/201589-comparison-of-m9-and-m240/?do=findComment&comment=2290647'>More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 4, 2013 Share #85 Posted April 4, 2013 I will do some more static indoor shots under artificial lighting tonight...... and then that's me done. The comparison novelty has now worn off ..... so please could Leica fix the M240 WB so I don't have to do this anymore..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoskeptic Posted April 4, 2013 Share #86 Posted April 4, 2013 Maybe I missed this earlier, but have you tried setting manual WB with a WhiBal card? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 4, 2013 Share #87 Posted April 4, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) No. I'm too lazy and disorganised to do sensible things like that ..... I suppose for an indoor mixed light shoot like the one above it would be worthwhile ...... I will bear it in mind if Leica fail to sort out the WB issues on this camera Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 4, 2013 Share #88 Posted April 4, 2013 Some indoor comparisons..... as above, note: M9 first this time.... as before .... auto.... daylight.... cloudy ..... shadow Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/201589-comparison-of-m9-and-m240/?do=findComment&comment=2290936'>More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 4, 2013 Share #89 Posted April 4, 2013 M240 ..... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/201589-comparison-of-m9-and-m240/?do=findComment&comment=2290940'>More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 4, 2013 Share #90 Posted April 4, 2013 With these things are a bit closer..... the actual correct balance is between M9 Auto and Daylight (4850) .... the M240 auto looks fine ... but in reality is still slightly warm ... but much closer than the outside shots ... The next are the same at night with incandescent light ...... these are Auto WB followed by Tungsten..... M9 first Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 4, 2013 Share #91 Posted April 4, 2013 M9.... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/201589-comparison-of-m9-and-m240/?do=findComment&comment=2290948'>More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 4, 2013 Share #92 Posted April 4, 2013 now m240.... There are different settings again for tungsten: M9 2600 M240 3050 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/201589-comparison-of-m9-and-m240/?do=findComment&comment=2290951'>More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 4, 2013 Share #93 Posted April 4, 2013 Tungsten on the M9 is about right ..... all the others are too warm Auto on LR comes in about the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted April 4, 2013 Share #94 Posted April 4, 2013 Steve You deserve some kind of a medal for this. I'm ashamed to admit I've just been sorting it when it's wrong (not all the time). I'm still not convinced that there is a correct answer to AWB in mixed lighting, but I agree that the new M gets it wrong either way! Time for Bed all the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 4, 2013 Share #95 Posted April 4, 2013 Well thats enough...... The subject of camera calibration is very complicated .... a brief dip into the texts is quite bewildering with numerous conflicting factors that have to be juggled about ... and inevitably there are compromises and perfection is impossible..... The same is true of white balance .... there are a number of auto algorithms that either average the overall image or search for a reference white point ..... or variations on either of these themes ...... none work perfectly with every situation. Its been an interesting exercise looking into this .... it is far more complicated than it first seems..... and I am not really surprised that the M240 colour balance is not perfect in the initial firmware ...... and at the end of the day do you want what looks nice ..... or what is a true representation of the subject..... ?? I suspect... and hope .... that Leica will revise this based on feedback .... I assume they keep an eye on the forum ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted April 4, 2013 Share #96 Posted April 4, 2013 I must admit that is so very thorough. What little comparisons I have tried, pale in comparison to your in depth work. Bravo. Now, as you suggest, let us do hope they (Leica) are watching, studying in depth and reading. At the end of the day I want to be able to see a true representation of the subject that looks nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstlight Posted April 4, 2013 Share #97 Posted April 4, 2013 Well, how do you know all those things? Well... Thats how such platforms work once a next-gen model is comming... You also see this behaviour in other 'man-driven' forums for cars, tv's, etc. nothing to worry about Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted April 5, 2013 Share #98 Posted April 5, 2013 Well thats enough...... The subject of camera calibration is very complicated .... a brief dip into the texts is quite bewildering with numerous conflicting factors that have to be juggled about ... and inevitably there are compromises and perfection is impossible..... The same is true of white balance .... there are a number of auto algorithms that either average the overall image or search for a reference white point ..... or variations on either of these themes ...... none work perfectly with every situation. Of course, except in absolutely controlled lighting situations there won't ever be a 'right' answer anyway - the different light temperatures between shade and light in any scene can vary wildly - our eyes make decisions we accept, but how is the camera to decide? Anyway - you've done a grand job, and I think we all agree that, right or wrong, in most circumstances the M is too warm. All the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rirakuma Posted April 5, 2013 Share #99 Posted April 5, 2013 Hi Jono, I'm sure you've probably mentioned the warm color issue to Leica. Because you're a beta tester I'd assume they would have to at least give you a response on your suggestions. Is there a chance you could tell us if they agree with what has been mentioned and whether they are working on a fix at the moment? Of course, except in absolutely controlled lighting situations there won't ever be a 'right' answer anyway - the different light temperatures between shade and light in any scene can vary wildly - our eyes make decisions we accept, but how is the camera to decide? Anyway - you've done a grand job, and I think we all agree that, right or wrong, in most circumstances the M is too warm. All the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted April 5, 2013 Share #100 Posted April 5, 2013 Of course, except in absolutely controlled lighting situations there won't ever be a 'right' answer anyway - the different light temperatures between shade and light in any scene can vary wildly Yes and digital colour almost always looks awful in these kind of indoor 'use the light as you find it' (lowish mixed temperature) photographs and the new M looks like it is carrying on that tradition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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