RSL Posted March 29, 2007 Share #1 Posted March 29, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Check out this page: Burningbird » Sensor Cleaning, Part Ouch Anyone know what Leica has to say about this other than "Don't you dare touch the sensor with ANYTHING?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 29, 2007 Posted March 29, 2007 Hi RSL, Take a look here More on Sensor Cleaning. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted March 29, 2007 Share #2 Posted March 29, 2007 I don't feel Leica's attitude is THAT defensive. Did anyone try that adhesive stamp method yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted March 29, 2007 Share #3 Posted March 29, 2007 I don't feel Leica's attitude is THAT defensive. Did anyone try that adhesive stamp method yet? I haven't, though I'd be willing to try it. I just did my first Visible Dust "wet" cleaning to try to remove spots that appear to have been liquid-based--condensation, machine oil, or? It get the loose little specks of dust off, but not the spots. I guess I will summon the courage to take a second pass at it, but I don't like doing it and am concerned that I haven't been able to get the spots (Leica was supposed to clean it while they had it in Solms, but didn't as far as I can tell). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyspedden Posted March 30, 2007 Share #4 Posted March 30, 2007 I haven't, though I'd be willing to try it. I just did my first Visible Dust "wet" cleaning to try to remove spots that appear to have been liquid-based--condensation, machine oil, or? It get the loose little specks of dust off, but not the spots. I guess I will summon the courage to take a second pass at it, but I don't like doing it and am concerned that I haven't been able to get the spots (Leica was supposed to clean it while they had it in Solms, but didn't as far as I can tell). I have been using the Visible Dust system with (at least for now) no signs of damage to the ITO coating on the sensor. I usually follow the rule of dry cleaning with the Giotto Rocket Blower unless that system simply fails to clean the junk. I then try the Visible Dust Arctic Butterfly system (latest model) to try to get past the junk. When that fails I use the Visible Dust Sensor Swabs and their fluid (Sadly I have no idea if this is a problem with the ITO coatings on the M8) but so far no problems. We should really keep this thread going because this is not a trivial problem Cheers Woody Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyspedden Posted March 30, 2007 Share #5 Posted March 30, 2007 I don't feel Leica's attitude is THAT defensive. Did anyone try that adhesive stamp method yet? Jaap Read the latest at Luminous Landscape regarding the adhesive approach to sensor cleaning and pray that you got the swab oriented right way round Woody Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted March 30, 2007 Share #6 Posted March 30, 2007 If you want to see something really round-the-corner, check out Sometimes, It’s Better Not to Clean the Image Sensor on Your Camera - New York Times. (That product may already have been mentioned on the forum.) And remember, the M8 uses an IR-absorptive glass before the sensor, anti-reflection coated on both sides. It does not use the dichroic coating that some other newer cameras do. (That's why we use 486 filters. ) So standard Eclipse fluid will work fine till you run out. From page 28 of Kodak's KAF-10500LongSpec.pdf: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/20119-more-on-sensor-cleaning/?do=findComment&comment=215714'>More sharing options...
brucek Posted March 30, 2007 Share #7 Posted March 30, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Jaap Read the latest at Luminous Landscape regarding the adhesive approach to sensor cleaning and pray that you got the swab oriented right way round Woody Can you point me to this thread? I've tried searching through the Discussin fora over there and haven't found anything on this. Thanks! Bruce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted March 30, 2007 Share #8 Posted March 30, 2007 I have been using the Visible Dust system with (at least for now) no signs of damage to the ITO coating on the sensor. I usually follow the rule of dry cleaning with the Giotto Rocket Blower unless that system simply fails to clean the junk. I then try the Visible Dust Arctic Butterfly system (latest model) to try to get past the junk. When that fails I use the Visible Dust Sensor Swabs and their fluid (Sadly I have no idea if this is a problem with the ITO coatings on the M8) but so far no problems. We should really keep this thread going because this is not a trivial problem Cheers Woody Woody, you are absolutely correct, this is by no means a trivial concern. What I find striking is the lack of depth in the available literature I can find, particularly in what I read from the manufacturers, many of whom seem to believe as dust particles on a sensor are alike. Instead, there seem to be a range of possible dust sources that one finds on a sensor. First, and probably most common, is dust that seems to adhere to the sensor by electostatic charge. Then, there is a more complex sort of dust or spot like the ones I keep fighting and failing to eliminate--that look like they originated as tiny liquid drops that dried and adhered to the sensor tenaciously. I say tenaciously, because I have about 8-10 in my M8 and have tried to remove them with the Arctic Butterfly brush (only gets the electrostatic-charged particles), and the Visible Dust swabs and fluid, which doesn't seem to help at all in my case. I read a posting somewhere else today on this user forum that discusses Eclipse and Eclipse 2, which are alcohol (methanol) based, and if the spots on my sensor are oil-based, I'm thinking that may be the way to go. I really don't like going near a sensor, but I am tiring of spotting my shots. I'd love to hear from anyone on how I might remove my "dust" spots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted March 30, 2007 Share #9 Posted March 30, 2007 I had many spots on my sensor and ordered and tried the Visible Dust products including the Arctic Butterfly and their sensor cleaning fluid. 1. Blower=more new dust 2. Arctic Butterfly=no difference, stubborn spots still there 3. Sensor Clean=spots plus streaks on sensor. Then I rodered Eclipse and now only 1 or 2 stubborn spots left after first clean. Second clean 1 or 2 different spots but much better than the Visible Dust system and according to Kodak literature on sensor cleaning the recommended and safest cleaning for this particular sensor. I haven't tried adhesive but to ge the final spec or two I may give it a try. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted March 30, 2007 Share #10 Posted March 30, 2007 John, that is encouraging to hear. I think I'll switch to Eclipse 2 and see if it works. Apparently it is solvent based, and that is what I'm guessing it will take to get rid of my spots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted March 30, 2007 Share #11 Posted March 30, 2007 I would stay away from Eclipse 2 as it does not appear to be safe for the glass's coating. Eclipse works fine and is known to be safe. It may take a couple of tries but it works, leaves no streaks or smears, removes oil and grunge and SAFE! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 30, 2007 Share #12 Posted March 30, 2007 Could you elaborate on why E2 appears not to be safe? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted March 30, 2007 Share #13 Posted March 30, 2007 Could you elaborate on why E2 appears not to be safe? I can't locate it at the moment, but there is a list of cameras from the manufacturer of Eclipse and Eclipse E2 that shows that one should use E2, not the basic Eclipse, when cleaning the M8 sensor glass. Same with the Canon 5D and a couple of other cameras. The manufacturer of Eclipse seems to have their act together--they guarantee that their product will not harm your sensor, and if it does, they will pay for the repairs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted March 30, 2007 Share #14 Posted March 30, 2007 I can't locate it at the moment, but there is a list of cameras from the manufacturer of Eclipse and Eclipse E2 that shows that one should use E2, not the basic Eclipse, when cleaning the M8 sensor glass. Sorry, it's getting late, but go to http://www.photosol.com/cameras_bymfg.html for the list I referred to. It specifically recommends the use of Eclipse E2 when cleaning the sensors of the M8, the Nikon D70, D70s, and D80. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielt Posted March 30, 2007 Share #15 Posted March 30, 2007 Dust-Aid don´t recommend clean the sensor with his adhesive sensor cleaning Check his web site and "Camera Compatibility" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted March 30, 2007 Share #16 Posted March 30, 2007 I would stay away from Eclipse 2 as it does not appear to be safe for the glass's coating. Eclipse works fine and is known to be safe. It may take a couple of tries but it works, leaves no streaks or smears, removes oil and grunge and SAFE! I think you have this backwards. All the sites I can find say that if you own a M8 you should be using Eclipse 2 (Real name Eclipse E2) and NOT the original Eclipse fluid. Please give a refference to your statements. Photographic Solutions website has a list of which fluid should be used on different cameras and they list Eclipse E2 fpr the M8, along with other models from other manufacturers. Photographic Solutions, Inc. - Digital & Photographic Cleaning Solutions Why would they specify Eclipse E2 if it was unsafe? List Canon EOS 5D 3 E2 N CMOS Canon EOS 350D 2 Eclipse N CMOS Canon EOS 10D 2 Eclipse N CMOS Canon EOS 1D 1 Eclipse N CCD Canon EOS 1D Mark II 1 Eclipse N CMOS Canon EOS 1D Mark III 2 E2 N CMOS Canon EOS 1Ds 3 Eclipse N CMOS Canon EOS 1Ds Mark II 3 Eclipse N CMOS Canon EOS 20D 2 Eclipse N CMOS Canon EOS 300D 2 Eclipse N CMOS Canon EOS 30D 2 Eclipse N CMOS Canon EOS D30 2 Eclipse N CMOS Canon EOS D60 2 Eclipse N CMOS Canon Rebel 2 Eclipse N CMOS Canon Rebel Xti 2 E2 N CMOS Contax N Digital 3 Eclipse N CCD Fuji Finepix S1 Pro 1 Eclipse Y CCD Fuji Finepix S2 Pro 1 Eclipse Y CCD Fuji Finepix S3 Pro 1 Eclipse Y CCD Fuji Finepix S5 Pro 2 Eclipse Y CCD Kodak DCS 14n 3 Eclipse Y CMOS Kodak DCS 760 1 Eclipse Y CCD Kodak DCS SLR/c 3 Eclipse Y CMOS Kodak DCS SLR/n 3 Eclipse Y CMOS Kodak DCS620 1 Eclipse Y CCD Kodak DCS620X 1 Eclipse Y CCD Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D 2 Eclipse N CCD Maxxum 7D 2 Eclipse N CCD Leica M8 1 E2 N CCD Nikon D1 2 Eclipse N CCD Nikon D100 2 Eclipse N CCD Nikon D1H 2 Eclipse N CCD Nikon D1X 2 Eclipse N CCD Nikon D200 2 Eclipse N CCD Nikon D2H 2 Eclipse N JFET Nikon D2Hs 2 Eclipse N JFET Nikon D2X 2 Eclipse N CMOS Nikon D40 2 Eclipse N CCD Nikon D50 2 Eclipse N CCD Nikon D70 2 E2 N CCD Nikon D70s 2 E2 N CCD Nikon D80 2 E2 N CCD Olympus E300 2 Eclipse N CCD Olympus E1 2 Eclipse N CCD Pentax *ist DL 2 Eclipse N CCD Pentax *ist DS 2 Eclipse N CCD Pentax *ist D 2 Eclipse N CCD Sigma SD9 1 Eclipse N CMOS Sigma SD10 1 Eclipse N CMOS Sony Alpha 100 2 E2 Y CCD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted March 30, 2007 Share #17 Posted March 30, 2007 I Why would they specify Eclipse E2 if it was unsafe? Eclipse E2 is safe for the M8 as you state and can be read on the photosol website, .......... the unanswered question is: is Eclipse 1 also safe to use?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravastar Posted March 30, 2007 Share #18 Posted March 30, 2007 This is why there's confusion, conflicting information about E2 on various sites. For example: Cleaning Digital Cameras - The Methods The chemical used are flammable and cannot be shipped by air. Not for use on NON-Tin Oxide Sensors nor is for use on other critical optics. Photographic Solutions Eclipse E2 Cleaning Fluid for Tin Oxide Sensors Photographic Solutions E2 the highest purity tin oxide sensor cleaner contains less than 5 parts per million (ppm) of contamination (the whitish residue left after evaporation). This cleaner is recommended for both tin oxide CCD and CMOS sensors. Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted March 30, 2007 Share #19 Posted March 30, 2007 Eclipse E2 is safe for the M8 as you state and can be read on the photosol website, .......... the unanswered question is: is Eclipse 1 also safe to use?? Not sure but I have been using the original Eclipse on my M8, I've done about 4-6 cleanings on the M8 sensor with it, but I've just ordered the E2 Eclipse and will start using it on the M8. I'll still use the original on my D200. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted March 30, 2007 Share #20 Posted March 30, 2007 It is confusing because I have read just the opposite on some site I was on yesterday. However, if you go to the Kodak site and look up the sensor used in the M8 and their recommended cleaning solution, it is pure methanol i.e. Eclipse. Perhaps the E2 formulation would work too but I would trust Kodak to know what is safe for the sensor they manufacture. See attached. cleaningCoverGlass.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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