A little disappointed

[marknorton]

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I think the move to full-frame was what really drove demand for the M9. Demand for the new camera is high too, long back orders and it's reasonable to assume this will continue though I expect it's difficult to forecast. As for lenses, there seems to be just a handful which are not readily availabe including the 35mm Summilux ASPH; even the APO 90mm Summicron ASPH seems to be available.

 

The big question in my mind is what lenses Leica will introduce to take advantage of the new facilities in the M camera and to what extent users of older cameras will be able to make use of them.

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[BrendanD]

I had a look at an M this week whilst in Berlin. Its a solid nice camera, but I didn't feel it aded anything much to my M9. I shoot 35/50/75/90 and am happy with that, I dont want live view, macro or an EVF (hate them with a vengeance), so I'd be getting an M9 with a better LCD (which I rarely use) and a slightly better ISO...

70% of my work I convert to B&W, so today I've just picked up a nice lightly brassed MM, and I'm really excited about it.. It just looks so 'black' as well, really cool.

[Jamie Roberts]

Well, I'm not sure the sales channel is keeping up with demand, which might be one reason why you're not see a flurry of excited posts.

 

A lot of us just don't have one yet

 

I haven't even been able to see one of the new 240s, much less test one, much less buy one

 

And I really have to wonder at some people's expectations: 1.3 stops difference in ISO "wall" sounds like a lot to me. Makes a Summilux into a Noctilux in effect (and a wee bit more).

 

A capable ISO 5000 is just fine with me, and is more than what a 5d3 gives me now. I don't need ISO 10K, and none of my Nikons or Canons can really deliver anything worth delivering at that ISO anyway. Having a setting doesn't make it good.

 

Anyway, in lieu of actually having one in my hands, so I can shoot an 80R Lux with it, the two things I'd like to see at this point 1) more DNGs in normal photographic lighting and 2) some colour prints (and well, movies taken with various Leica lenses, but that's more about sheer curiousity than anything else

 

Any other lack of excitement on the 240 really just speaks to how capable a camera the M9 actually is. So the M240 will be an evolutionary camera. And that's a very good thing.

[Karl G]

 

Seems like a good time also for Leica to introduce a couple new lenses like the rumoured 28 Summilux.

 

Could not agree more on the lens assessment.

Number one on my wish list would be a Macro Asph say 100-105 MM F2.8 or better. There is a perfectly good R version of this lens, of course, but a M version will save some kit.

[henning]

I'm certainly not disappointed. I got the M8 as soon as it was available, but didn't get the M9 for quite a while after it was available, as to me the M9 was an M8 with a larger sensor and really no other improvements. The IR thing wasn't a big problem for me as I'd seen the IR sensitivity as an M8 beta tester, and I just got the filters and went on living. Using a 28mm on the M8 instead of a 35mm on the M9 wasn't a big deal.

 

However, the M240 is a completely new camera, and has addressed pretty much all the concerns I had with the M8/9. Faster electronics, smoother shutter release, better battery life, ISO usability to 3200 and various little things.

 

With the M9 I still often had to wait for the camera, and that just didn't fit with my usage and what I was used to from the many years with film M's. I don't shoot on 'C', but it's pretty easy to hit the buffer on the M8/9 street shooting or other fast changing situations.

 

As I neither had a problem with M8 or M9 file quality, the additional capabilities of the M240 in that area aren't a deciding factor.

 

Henning

[AlanJW]

 

I did the same thing with my guitar gear a few years back. I sold all the digital stuff (modelling amplifiers, effect boards with all the typical effects, etc) and purchased a basic and pure tube amplifier. After that change I enjoyed playing my electric guitar a whole lot more than with the digital amplifiers, modellers and effects. It made me focus on the music itself rather all the functions, gizmos, gadgets, settings, modelling presets, effects, delays, flangers... You name it/rant

 

Why don't you use a plain old manual guitar to produce music as it was meant to be heard? Does that sound silly? My point is we all use technology and enjoy it in different ways. I'm not going to tell you you're wrong to not want a M. But please don't try to send me on a guilt trip for feeling differently. We are looking for different things.

[Guest Essemmlee]

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I'm thinking that if I wanted live view and video and to use long lenses and macro I'd buy the camera and lenses that were ideally designed for those purposes.

 

What set the M series apart was the deliberate lack of those additions, the simplicity and purity of aperture, shutter and focus (latterly ISO as well).

 

As the M series moves slowly towards the Nikon and Canon experience I may as well buy one of those. I know the M still a rangefinder if it needs to be, it just doesn't feel like it any more.

 

I desire the M Monochrom, and I'm very much looking forward to seeing what Leica comes up with next.

[skinnfell]

Little details? How about...

 

- The little rubber seal on the back of the hot shoe protector to seal the EVF port and the pin to hold it in place?

- The welcome return of the round lug instead of the badly cut flat plate to retain the base plate?

- The thumb rest and wheel?

- The little magnet on the inside of the baseplate to tell the camera it's attached? No more lump pressing against a fragile microswitch.

- The new massively improved tripod mount?

- The new design of lens mount?

- The grippy covering which is the best iteration to date?

- The positive feedback from the dimple switches (though the focus one could be better)?

- The sheer quality of the single piece casting from which the camera is made? Open the bottom cover and the finish is extraordinary unlike the castings on the M8 and M9 which (on the M8 at least) were a bit rough.

 

sure enough, all of these are improvements. But they all fall in the category I would call "Nice To Have". Some changes, like the thumbie thingie, I suspect will be a nuisance.

 

But what does that matter, when the most important of all, for many - image quality - seems to be a minor upgrade or even a downgrade?

 

So far, the pictures I have seen from the M240 have - in my opinion - ranged from unimpressive to downright ghastly. This includes all the downloadable DNGs I have managed to get my hands on. (not many yet, admittedly.)

 

By the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding, the pictures. None of these operational upgrades will significantly affect the pictures. But terrible colors and plasticky details, will.

 

If we are supposed to see dramatic upgrades in image quality, by way of firmware and/or lightroom support, then might we argue that the release was premature?

[Guest Essemmlee]

So far, the pictures I have seen from the M240 have - in my opinion - ranged from unimpressive to downright ghastly.

 

That's another thing; where are the photos from the M? It's really difficult to find any. Given that there are now a few cameras being used on a daily basis I would have expected to see at least a couple of really outstanding finished images. J

 

Jono's, Mings and Chris's prelaunch test pics are first class but it really stops there.

[jaapv]

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/other/274176-leica-m-shots-post-them-here.html

[jonoslack]

 

So far, the pictures I have seen from the M240 have - in my opinion - ranged from unimpressive to downright ghastly.

 

That's a sweeping statement - forgetting the personal - I'm amazed that you found Ming Thein's images to be unimpressive to downright ghastly.

[theno23]

Personally, I think the M is a much more significant evolution from the M9 than was the M8

to M9 move.

 

I don't quite agree about that, I personally never got one with the M8, and liked the M9 a lot, but it's certainly a much bigger deal than some people are making out.

 

It's notable that (almost?) everyone that's shot with one thinks it's a significant upgrade, but those that just like moaning about stuff online don't

 

- Steve

[theno23]

sure enough, all of these are improvements. But they all fall in the category I would call "Nice To Have". Some changes, like the thumbie thingie, I suspect will be a nuisance.

 

I think you're wrong about that - I never liked thumbsup type bracket things, got in the way too much, but the new thumb grip is a big improvement.

 

But what does that matter, when the most important of all, for many - image quality - seems to be a minor upgrade or even a downgrade?

 

Again, that's really not the case. It's not a huge improvement at base ISO, but at pretty much any other setting, it's a lot better.

 

If you only shoot base ISO, in low contrast situations, and never use wides, then there's not a lot of benefit, but otherwise there's a lot.

 

If we are supposed to see dramatic upgrades in image quality, by way of firmware and/or lightroom support, then might we argue that the release was premature?

 

You never used an early M9 did you not to mention the M8.

 

I got my M9 6+ months after launch, and it still felt like a beta product. It wasn't until the lightroom noise reduction code was upgraded that I could get decent low light colours shots - though B&W was always fine.

 

- Steve

[skinnfell]

That's a sweeping statement - forgetting the personal - I'm amazed that you found Ming Thein's images to be unimpressive to downright ghastly.

 

Ming Thein shoots good pictures and edits them well - however, as I have pointed out in other posts, It is hard to evaluate anyhing based on 1000px, heavily photoshopped images. In that size they might as well been shot with an iPhone.

Right now I am trying to get a grasp of what this new equipment can do for me, not how good this or that photographer is in photoshop.

 

I did fail to specify that I was talking about the image quality of the (very few) sample images around. I apologize for that. But I did say that they RANGE from unimpressive to downright ghastly, the worst examples being the official "performance proofs" on Leicas web site.

Again, this is a personal opinion, but nonetheless one I need to use as a basis if I am going to spend 6-7000 dollars. I will be happy to spend the money if I can get, lets say a 30% quality improvement on 1 metre prints, something I have found to be just outside the comfort range of my M9.

Image quality matters to me, button placements, extra features and screen sizes does not.

 

Neither the Leica monochrom nor the M are cameras you cant exactly walk down to your corner store and get a free forthnight home trial. Yet, one of them has blown me out of the water with impressive image quality, and one has not, based on the very few RAW samples available.

[theno23]

If you only shoot base ISO, in low contrast situations, and never use wides, then there's not a lot of benefit, but otherwise there's a lot.

 

That probably sounds a bit sarcastic, but wasn't meant that way - of course a great number of photographers only ever shoot 35-90mm, in good light, low-medium contrast situations - and get amazing results.

 

I honestly don't think anyone shooting that way will see a significant image quality improvement.

 

- Steve

[dkCambridgeshire]

I am wondering if the negativity in this thread is due to the awful weather and forum members being afflicted with SAD.

 

When the sun begins to shine and we can get out and take some decent photographs opinions might change.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

[ErikP]

I think you will find that there won't be an enormous flurry of posts about the M.......

 

Most posts are moans and complaints ....... And in my limiting fiddling with this camera I can't find much to criticise and the image output is ...... Errr....... Just like a Leica......

 

Same with the apo 50 'damp squib'........ It's unexciting because its almost faultless from a technical point of view.

 

It's a camera that does everything pretty much as expected so there is no excuse not to go out and take photos instead of blabbing about it

 

Whilst noiseless images at 128000iso, 100 megapixels, 30 frames per second continuous shooting in a camera the size of a cigarette packet will no doubt come ........ Even this will never satisfy everyone ......... and they certainly won't make you a better photographer......

 

Well - with the risk to be shot down - Leica is not so much a rational choice - not regarding prize, nor IQ. Competition is ahead of the brand, (to be honest). But who gives a ....... The pictures is great, (also with other brands). The Leica experience, sound, build, files, lenses is what makes the package extra ordinary - at least thats why I am here, reading posts

 

Used a 90 mm 2.8 from the mid 60th at Lanzarote - and the pictures are just right. Wonderful files. Shopping for another vintage lens as complement to my other "clean 2010" lenses.

 

This flexibility to walk through the timeline of photografic know how and trends are totally unique!

 

It really is - for me - so much fun. As soon as I can afford I will buy the M and more vintage lenses

 

And correct me if I am wrong - I think there is a hole lot of people thinking in line with these thoughts?

 

Even a younger customer base might be hanging here sooner than we think?

[Borbarad]

Like most here I took my chances with the M8 and loved it to bits. I anticipated the M9 along with the rest of the members here and became excited by the build up to its arrival. When it did finally arrive the fanfare was supreme and I could hardly wait to get out there and grab one.

 

Obviously I did buy an M9 and I still have it and love it and use it every day.

 

I haven't felt the same about the M. There hasn't been much of a build up and it's felt like a bit of damp squib now it's here. There has been the odd bit of purchasing justification from the new owners but no great excitement as in the advent of the M9.

 

It feels, to me and maybe only to me, like this version is a beta version for the next big thing, and that the next big thing will be big. Maybe similar to the M8 to M9 transition.

 

With that in mind I am going to wait for the next big thing and in the interim I'm sure that my M9 (along with my OMD) will provide first class service.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. Yes the M is new and certain areas of improvement but it just doesn't feel like the M9. So I'm waiting at least for the P version or the next version. Actually the Monochrom is the one with the want one factor!

 

By the way I also have the OMD.

 

B

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Look here: Leica M

[macjonny1]

Here's the deal with new models IMHO. It's no different than when a new redesign of a car model comes out. There's going to be new features...the new NAV, heated seats, 11" DVD player upgraded from the old 8" one, bigger wheels, maybe a few HP. Is the new car going to get you to work any *better* than your current one? Probably not. Do all the features when put together make it a more enjoyable experience for you? For many the new one will. Some will live with their current model and not upgrade because it works good enough for them. Everyone still gets to arrive at work just fine. Some folks drive an old classic car. He got to work too just fine. No one at work gives a *#*%$ how anyone got to work in the end. It's all about your own personal experience!

 

No need to be disappointed the current model works great, and even much older models you can achieve great results.

[pieterpronk]

I find the lack of pictures or even better dngs to be found online a bit disturbing. I enjoyed Mings pictures a lot, but they are obviously photoshopped a lot, and with his wizardry he could even make my pictures from my phone look good.

 

Also, Leica should have given him and Jono the camera for free right from the start. At least their capable hands would put some pictures online. Give me one and I would have put more on Flickr in one day than there seems to be available more than a week after the first ones were sold. And no, they wouldn't involve much skill on my part, and yes, it would be obvious that I hadn't found out much about the camera. But really, with all M owners worldwide combined, is it so hard to put like a 100 pictures a day online, or maybe 500 in the first week? Surely with cameras sold in most continents, that should be doable? What kind of photographers are these people? The kind that sells a used M with below 500 shutter count?

 

Leica, give us something to look at, before our number is up to put down 6300 euro.

 

Oh since I'm venting anyway. Give the camera a proper name. Now it has become too hard to even find a Flickr group, because nobody knows what such a group should be called.