IR foreheads?

[steve_l]

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I don't know how that shot was metered, but I've observed that the innate M8 metering doesn't "protect" against blown highlights the way some others (e.g., Digilux 2) does....the review picture does have a "highlight indicator" option, which actually is fairly conservative, and should have shown the flaws in these images on review, I believe....

 

So either check the review or expose conservatively in the presence of potentially-specular highlights....

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[Guest guy_mancuso]

This is part of the problem when your using the P&S camera's and such is really the manufacturer is really tweaking the camera so you can't screw up and will try to make the camera underexpose so highlights are not blown , of course this affects the shadows also . The M8 , DMR there are no settings that a OEM does this to. Your on you own here. No camera will protect you completely from specular hightlights, what the leica digital do have is the range of exposure that most camera's don't have so you can recover easier but in this case not a heck of a lot is going to save you except some airbrushing. Even on very controlled lighting that i do on portraits if the angle of incidence hits the angle of refectance than i better move a light ..

 

Okay watch this this light on his fore head is from a backlight or hairlight see how it hits his head and reflects back. Now if i taped a mirror to his head here than the light hitting the mirror i can see the lamp than that would creat a specular highlight. Here i am very close to blowing it and i did airbrush this some

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[Guest guy_mancuso]

Okay now watch this from the Main softbox 2x3 in size look at her forehead again i am on the verge of making a big probelm. You see the highlights that i will have to go in and airbrush down a little . Now if i moved my lamp a little more to the right it would have been better . okay people move and only so much you can do . Now this problem is even worse with different types of light obviously a spotlight will be worse because it is not diffused and a softbox less because it is a bigger source of light the samples from the OP are spots and really without moving the subject your going to get that . When you shoot a glass vase what are you really shooting, think about it your really shooting the reflection on the vase from the light so you have to control the quality as much as the quantity of light. I think we need a workshop here on lighting and what it does and does not do.

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[jaapv]

I think we need a workshop here on lighting and what it does and does not do.

That, Guy would be very much appreciated by me. It is a field about which I know zilch and I am willing to learn a bit about it.I'm sure there are more willing pupils around.

[sdai]

I have no doubt that there's a lot can be done to rectify this but under casual shooting circumstances ... which is where most M shooters will find the use of the M8 for ... you don't have the luxury ... ok, brush some power on strangers' foreheads and faces, or, let someone hold a light from a different angle ... from the other side of the street, wait a minute, maybe I shall find a lower contrast lens? LOL

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Exactly Simon it is going to happen in places were things cannot be controlled and even in the controlled area's this will happen. Longer tonal ranges will help , less contrasty lenses will help, less contrasty lighting , raw processing will help with recovery sliders , airbrushing well help but none will eliminate it totally. We simply can't always shoot under cloudy skies all the time to lower the range. But we have a lot of tools to help control it.

[ibogost]

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I don't know how that shot was metered, but I've observed that the innate M8 metering doesn't "protect" against blown highlights the way some others (e.g., Digilux 2) does....the review picture does have a "highlight indicator" option, which actually is fairly conservative, and should have shown the flaws in these images on review, I believe....

 

So either check the review or expose conservatively in the presence of potentially-specular highlights....

 

This sounds right to me too. We can discuss the 8 vs 16 bit issue endlessly, and that's fine, but in the meantime it doesn't help anyone choose exposure. In situations like this, slightly underexposing on the M8 seems "safe" because there's such strong detail in the shadows thanks to the 8 bit compression implementation, that it exposure can safely be adjusted in post.

 

Then again, I often like to push or blow highlights intentionally -- either in camera or in post -- so maybe I'm the wrong person to weigh in here.

[wparsonsgisnet]

OK, new thought --

 

If we are going to have to bracket our exposures, how about an automatic bracketing function on the M8.

 

This should be one stop either way?

 

Can do, Mr. Solms? Guy, can you add this to the druther list?

 

tnx,

[ibogost]

OK, new thought --

 

If we are going to have to bracket our exposures, how about an automatic bracketing function on the M8.

 

 

It's a nice idea. I guess if it's going to be there it would be nice to bracket in half-stops. I'm pretty easy going and don't mind just adjusting exposure, but bracketing is certainly a reasonable feature to imagine in the future.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Well we have to be careful here , we could be taking anice simple camera and making it as complex as a canon.You know the saying be carefull what you wish for. But if we had a better EV control than you the user can do this also. I will do a feature list though just need to get around to it . Bill put it on the response thread so i can capture it there

[stunsworth]

For exposure comp how about a half press of the shutter and then rotate the dial on the back clockwise or anti-clockwise. Easy to find and you don't have to worry if you're pressing the wrong button.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Yes and it shows the setting in the finder like the shutter does. That was my idea was flash the EV comp. in the finder. not really that hard . Okay from a non engineer easy to say

[Riley]

well, perhaps like jaap, this is way out of my league

but is there an in-camera contrast adjustment that you can back off a tad?

 

oh heck

cancel that you guys shoot RAW

something i dont do here either

[ho_co]

If we are going to have to bracket our exposures, how about an automatic bracketing function on the M8.

Bill--

Skip the auto function. It would just mean another menu item to choose whether we want to bracket in half or full stops etc etc. Instead, expand Steve U's recommendation to both sides. Example:

 

(In aperture priority mode.) Start with, say, 1/250 at f/8. Take picture. This is un-compensated exposure.

 

Press release half way to lock exposure. Open aperture by, say, 1 stop. Take picture. This is +1 stop exposure.

 

Now lens is at f/5.6, and camera will meter 1/500.

 

Press release half way to lock exposure. Close aperture by 1 stop. Take picture. This is -1 stop exposure.

 

You've now done a set of three exposures at one stop intervals. And the best part is: you're back where you started--the lens at f/8, camera metering 1/250.

 

 

Second topic, as implied above by Phil F and Steve L:

With the M8, one should 'expose to the left,' not to the right.

 

Other systems protect highlights, so you expose to the right to maintain shadows. Because the M8 compression algorithm works to protect shadow values, you expose to the left to maintain highlights.

 

Mentioned in passing by Hußmann, I believe, in LFI article on M8 compression.

 

--HC

[jaapv]

So what is wrong with my method. I never had an M camera with AE before, so I do not even consider compensation etc. That function I have never even used yet, except in flash photography. I normally go to manual, measure a dark spot, measure a light spot and adjust exposure the way I want it.The little arrows help: round led: spot on, half burning triangle: half a stop off, fully burning triangle led: one or more stops off. No Heizelmannchen doing it just wrong, only my own mistakes, which I can correct.

[ho_co]

Jaap--

Your method is best, when the subject allows it. As Steve said above, we need to take care only when the subject has highlights that we don't want to lose.

 

That's also one of the reason that some of the older lens designs may be better for portraiture than modern, higher contrast ones. (Think Zeiss C Sonnar 50/1.5 for example.)

 

--HC

[wparsonsgisnet]

Bill--

Skip the auto function. It would just mean another menu item to choose whether we want to bracket in half or full stops etc etc. Instead, expand Steve U's recommendation to both sides. Example:

 

(In aperture priority mode.) Start with, say, 1/250 at f/8. Take picture. This is un-compensated exposure.

 

Press release half way to lock exposure. Open aperture by, say, 1 stop. Take picture. This is +1 stop exposure. ...

...

Second topic, as implied above by Phil F and Steve L:

With the M8, one should 'expose to the left,' not to the right. ... --HC

 

Howard, this is certainly doable, but doesn't capture pictures that look alike. In burst mode (bracketing function), the pictures will all occur in 1.5 seconds. The sitters' expressions are more likely to be similar.

 

Yup, it's clugey and asks Leica to give us a digicam function that is probably not on their radar, but it has the specific function of bracketing so we can control blown highlights while, at the same time, getting close to similar expressions. In the interest of controlling lighting variables, Leica might be interested in this type of bracketing.

 

We don't need to do this for grass, trees, cows, or Morgan sports cars.

 

Regards,

[Dan States]

They just look like shiny headed bald guys to me...my D200 has given similar results. There is a ton of contrast range in the scenes above. Often indoor shots have a tremendous range of brightness. No digital can perform miracles.

 

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[ho_co]

Bill--

You're right. I was looking at the thing from another point of view.

 

I just remember trying to figure out how to bracket with a D200, and don't want the M8 to grow up that way: On the D200 as I recall--

 

One menu setting lets you specify how many exposures you want (up to 9, I think).

 

Another menu lets you choose how much exposure difference you want (1/3, 2/3, 1 stop etc).

 

A third menu setting lets you reset the one I just mentioned to operate in half-stops instead of third-stops.

 

And after all that, coming from digicams, I was amazed to find that one shutter press didn't automatically do the bracketing UNLESS I first set the camera to make repeated exposures. If I left the camera set for single exposures, even after adjusting all my bracketing parameters as above, the camera did only one exposure in the set per shutter press. Very good for shooting Morgans.

 

HC

[craigrmurray]

Rogaine, dudes!

 

Craig