erl Posted September 7, 2013 Share #61 Posted September 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I see no problem with being presented with new models every so often. The problem is succumbing to them! $475 amortized over a cameras (expected) life is much cheaper than a car, or a wife. Everything is relative. (who said that ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 7, 2013 Posted September 7, 2013 Hi erl, Take a look here M7 vs. MP reliablilty?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
semi-ambivalent Posted September 7, 2013 Share #62 Posted September 7, 2013 $475 is significant, but a small price to pay for not being presented with successor models every few years like in the digital world Yes, and especially true since the invention of the "prosumer" market segment. Those folks will buy very, very expensive cameras as long as there's a model in the line-up that's more expensive. That way their cognitive dissonance can tell them 'don't buy that one, you're not a pro'. So they still spend more $ than for another camera that would produce excellent images for them but are still not buying the top of the line, which would be 'too expensive'. And they're still on the upgrade treadmill, either by real technological advances, feature drift down-market, or peer pressure. I might have just paid a lot of money for what amounts to a brand new M3. But it will not be replaced by a better model because it can't get better*; it or the M7 and, it's NIB. I'm sure at this stage of the game Leica relies heavily on the buyer's own psychology to help sell these things but who doesn't do that? s-a * - Perhaps, because the heritage angle crafted and sustained by Leica, the MP could be 'improved' by moving all of its manufacture to Solms. Perhaps some day it will be, and the Portuguese MPs will be looked upon with some distain, like I've sensed is used with the Canadian lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 8, 2013 Share #63 Posted September 8, 2013 * - Perhaps, because the heritage angle crafted and sustained by Leica, the MP could be 'improved' by moving all of its manufacture to Solms. Perhaps some day it will be, and the Portuguese MPs will be looked upon with some distain, like I've sensed is used with the Canadian lenses. It seems to me, that which you 'sensed' is non-nonsensical. I think you may be surprised by how much of your Leica gear started its life in Portugal or Canada. I think you would also be surprised by how good the manufacturing process is in both those locations. I am the proud owner and user of Leica gear that started out in both those countries, as well as completely German made components. Curiously, my quality control problems have all sourced from Germany. That may be coincidence of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted September 8, 2013 Share #64 Posted September 8, 2013 I think there's a wider issue here. Is stuff worth fixing? In this ephemeral, transient, obsolescent, planned or inevitable-as-the-result-of-the-speed-of-technological-change age, many people conclude not. Just buy new and throw the old one away. I would argue even if it costs a bit to repair -- mainly due to time and labor -- go for it! It is great to repair and revive a masterpiece of mechanical design. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted September 8, 2013 Share #65 Posted September 8, 2013 It seems to me, that which you 'sensed' is non-nonsensical. I think you may be surprised by how much of your Leica gear started its life in Portugal or Canada. I think you would also be surprised by how good the manufacturing process is in both those locations. I am the proud owner and user of Leica gear that started out in both those countries, as well as completely German made components. Curiously, my quality control problems have all sourced from Germany. That may be coincidence of course. I don't have any problems with Canadian produced Leica products, and I didn't see anything in my post that implied that. Not that you would have seen it but I have also posted in the past my thoughts on just what it means to be a Leica product and it's place of manufacture was not one of the criteria. I based my remark on e.g., what i saw others asking for used lenses in some of the different places I shopped for them when I first started moving into Leica from my old Nikons. My footnote was not there because I believe in any kind of superiority of the product from Germany (My MP will be Portuguese by birth), and "Sensed" was probably a bad choice of words. That is why I quoted "improved" in my post; others might see that (origin) as an important difference. My post was as much about Leica manufacturing an aura or persona for its cameras as anything, and when a company does that they must be very careful. Lots of inconsequential things can assume importance and their effect can be real if not warranted. It's one of the minefields which Marketing creates. Sorry to hear of your QC problems. I have a 2/35 ASPH with a crooked shade. Cheers, s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 8, 2013 Share #66 Posted September 8, 2013 s-a, I take your point. I had understood something a bit different from what you meant. Country of origin does erroneously mean something to some people. In some cases it it can be important as well. Here in Oz we say "buy Australian made" to keep our kids in jobs. It doesn't mean the product is better. Sometimes it's worse! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted September 9, 2013 Share #67 Posted September 9, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Properly executed, a CLA should leave an M camera in good order for ten years. At $475, that equals less than $1 per week for ten years worth of service. JMHO, but that doesn't strike me as being such an onerous cost for maintaining a fine camera... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtorf Posted September 9, 2013 Share #68 Posted September 9, 2013 That's why I do not believe the myth of MP any more. My MP had been CLA'ed by Leica not long before the shutter curtain broke. I sold the MP soon after the fix. I think $475 is a very fair price for a CLA and repair. The "ouch" was really more a response to needing to have the repair done after shooting only 50 rolls of film through the camera. I bought the camera new and it has been babied the whole time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 9, 2013 Share #69 Posted September 9, 2013 That's why I do not believe the myth of MP any more. My MP had been CLA'ed by Leica not long before the shutter curtain broke. I sold the MP soon after the fix. Any bit of gear, new or old, can break immediately or later, after any service. Service is not a guarantee of continued service, just a preventative of some events that may happen otherwise. likewise, having no service is not a guarantee of breakdown, but could increase the likelihood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted September 9, 2013 Share #70 Posted September 9, 2013 s-a, I take your point. I had understood something a bit different from what you meant. Country of origin does erroneously mean something to some people. In some cases it it can be important as well. Here in Oz we say "buy Australian made" to keep our kids in jobs. It doesn't mean the product is better. Sometimes it's worse! No problem Erl. Some subjects can get a bit touchy and, no matter what people say, the internet is not very good at relaying nuances of content. Better to argue over drinks at the same table, yes? I certainly don't have any answers. The US lost jobs to the Japanese, Japan lost jobs to the Chinese and now China is loosing jobs to the Vietnamese (SP?) It's global in scale. It takes fewer people to produce a single unit of many of the things people want than it did fifty years ago so a lot of jobs are never coming back to any country; they're just gone. German wages are pretty good (high) and Leica probably had to go elsewhere for at least some of the MP's assembly if the product was going to remain viable. Maybe money saved in Portugal is helping to keep the cost of German Noctiluxes under US$12k so we all benefit at different times . There might not even be a Leica RF now if not for the Elcan venture. Cheers, s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffrypittman Posted November 9, 2013 Share #71 Posted November 9, 2013 I received my black MP back from Leica NJ today. When Leica returns your camera it is almost as thrilling as receiving a new Leica. First of all, repairs take some time so it seems like a new camera. Secondly, they send it back pampered and looking new! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted November 9, 2013 Share #72 Posted November 9, 2013 I received my black MP back from Leica NJ today. When Leica returns your camera it is almost as thrilling as receiving a new Leica. First of all, repairs take some time so it seems like a new camera. Secondly, they send it back pampered and looking new! Congrats! Yesterday too I learned that my MP (also black but with silver bits) is in the US, 2 1/2 months since ordering, and will get to my vendor by Monday. Can't believe it; my first truly new camera since about 1984, and it's still using that damn film stuff... s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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