Snapper UK Posted February 15, 2013 Share #1 Posted February 15, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Spoke to my local Leica dealer earlier today about when he is anticipating having the first M240s. He currently has over 50 pre-ordered but is expecting very constrained supply when it does come out probably at the very end of March or in April. He is not expecting to get more than 10 in the first shipment. Apparently I am in that 10. He seems to think that the delay is due to a problem with the video. Word is the firmware needs further tweaking because there are some problems with pixelation. He said he should find out more next week and maybe able to give an up date next wednesday. Please bear in mind this dealer also assured me at the end of November it would be a January release. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 15, 2013 Posted February 15, 2013 Hi Snapper UK, Take a look here End of March/ Early April. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
furcafe Posted February 15, 2013 Share #2 Posted February 15, 2013 Leica M (240) release date delayed till April 30, 2013 | Leica News & Rumors Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted February 15, 2013 Share #3 Posted February 15, 2013 It seems bizarre that every delay blames firmware: There are also many subtle hardware issues uncovered with new products late in the development cycle ; that, no matter how hard you try, cannot be satisfactorily resolved with firmware. If it was a pure video firmware issue, many might say give me the camera now, and send a firmware update for the video later. If on the other hand a hardware modification was lurking as a possibility, they would not want to release and later recall a bunch of cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest odeon Posted February 15, 2013 Share #4 Posted February 15, 2013 The shipping date is clear: It will ship when it ready. No any speculation. Just, just "early 2013". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydarkroom Posted February 15, 2013 Share #5 Posted February 15, 2013 Leica should start hiring some serious personnel to develop those Firmware. I am still unimpressed that they shipped the Monochrom with a beta firmware and have not updated it at all (yes, bugs need to be fixed at least). It seems bizarre that every delay blames firmware: There are also many subtle hardware issues uncovered with new products late in the development cycle ; that, no matter how hard you try, cannot be satisfactorily resolved with firmware. If it was a pure video firmware issue, many might say give me the camera now, and send a firmware update for the video later. If on the other hand a hardware modification was lurking as a possibility, they would not want to release and later recall a bunch of cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted February 15, 2013 Share #6 Posted February 15, 2013 All these delays must be playing havoc with Leica's cash-flow projections... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper UK Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share #7 Posted February 15, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) All these delays must be playing havoc with Leica's cash-flow projections... Fortunately my own cash flow projections are looking better for April than they are right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted February 15, 2013 Share #8 Posted February 15, 2013 My accountant wants me to spend the money before the end of March - and I want the camera before then too :-( Heigh ho - better a bit late and RIGHT, than here and wrong... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkcsm Posted February 15, 2013 Share #9 Posted February 15, 2013 The only real promise from Leica was 1st quarter, right? Then it's not late yet! I expect that they're churning out hardware as fast as they can and will load firmware when it's complete. The only material delay will be for those near the top of the preorder lists. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 15, 2013 Share #10 Posted February 15, 2013 All these delays “All these delays”? Leica has never promised a specific shipping date. Back in early December I wrote that March (one of its 31 days) might be realistic; at that time, some people were still fantasizing about January or February. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krooj Posted February 15, 2013 Share #11 Posted February 15, 2013 It seems bizarre that every delay blames firmware: There are also many subtle hardware issues uncovered with new products late in the development cycle ; that, no matter how hard you try, cannot be satisfactorily resolved with firmware. If it was a pure video firmware issue, many might say give me the camera now, and send a firmware update for the video later. If on the other hand a hardware modification was lurking as a possibility, they would not want to release and later recall a bunch of cameras. It's not really that bizarre. Writing software for one of these cameras must be _extremely_ difficult and I don't even want to think about fixing bugs on something like that. Moreover, sending hardware out the door while it's running beta firmware is dually bad: one one hand, the device won't live up to it's full expectations, thereby tarnishing Leica's image. Secondly, firmware updates are totally out of Leica's control, so if you or I were to brick our camera with a bad firmware update (bad ROM or corrupt SD), then it's likely the camera will have to go back to Leica for service, which is a further cost. I'd be stunned to find out Leica employs full time developers for this firmware - it's more likely contracted out, and they're licensing some base code from another vendor. It wouldn't even surprise me to find out that the "Maestro" processor is just a branding for some chip made by Sony or someone else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMB Posted February 15, 2013 Share #12 Posted February 15, 2013 Forecast of 50 cameras pre-ordered per 100 dealers equal 5000 eager people to satisfy the first week of the launch. Francisco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 15, 2013 Share #13 Posted February 15, 2013 No one has ver said that someone on a list is going to get a camera in the first week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 15, 2013 Share #14 Posted February 15, 2013 It's not really that bizarre. There’s nothing bizarre about it. When you develop a camera, firmware development always finishes last. I'd be stunned to find out Leica employs full time developers for this firmware - it's more likely contracted out, and they're licensing some base code from another vendor. The latter is what they used to do with the M8 and M9 – electronics and firmware development was done by Jenoptik. Since then they have switched to the former mode, i.e. in-house development. It wouldn't even surprise me to find out that the "Maestro" processor is just a branding for some chip made by Sony or someone else. It would have thought it was well known that the Maestro CPU was developed with and manufactured by Fujitsu. Of course the Maestro is based on standard Fujitsu designs rather than being designed from scratch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscheffler Posted February 15, 2013 Share #15 Posted February 15, 2013 Michael, do you know whether the M's Maestro processor is the exact same one as in the S2, or do the new M and S have a newer version? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 15, 2013 Share #16 Posted February 15, 2013 The Maestro chip set is made by Fujitsu. It seems to be a joint Leica/Fujitsu development probably built from a family of on-chip sub-component parts. Where once the firmware - and indeed the hardware - development was sub-contracted out, it seems likely that Leica has brought this in-house. The hardware and firmware is such a large part of critical IP that to put it out to sub-contractors is to put the business at risk. We'd better hope there are no last minute hardware changes. If, as we hope, Leica has been stockpiling built cameras waiting only for a final firmware load before being shipped out the door, the need for a hardware change would involve a huge amount of rework before first ship. There was of course a hardware recall of the M8, involving IIRC some 2000 cameras. The recall involved adding/replacing two components on the sensor board and a big logistical exercise and users were able to choose a lens at 30% discount for the inconvenience caused. I chose a WATE and a 75mm Summilux for my two cameras and was able to buy them at a scarcely believable price now. Leica will want to avoid a repeat at all costs, yet the M240 represents every bit as much of a technological leap in the dark as the M8 did. We should be happy to wait for Leica to get the camera right but they need to do just that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMB Posted February 15, 2013 Share #17 Posted February 15, 2013 But eager people were there asking when. Francisco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 15, 2013 Share #18 Posted February 15, 2013 Michael, do you know whether the M's Maestro processor is the exact same one as in the S2, or do the new M and S have a newer version? It’s the same processor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalfrednix Posted February 15, 2013 Share #19 Posted February 15, 2013 I don't understand Leica's marketing philosophy. Why introduce a new M camera in mid September only to have potential buyers wait for SEVEN MONTHS!! Introduce the camera only AFTER the firmware is satisfctory for use by photographers. They would have been better off with an April introduction followed by a May release. I know, I know, they wanted to show during Photokina! As a small business owner I would never advertize a new product at a major trade fair without being able to assure the potential buyer that the item will be ready to ship in less than one month. Can someone please explain this approach to marketing a camera or the lack thereof? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted February 15, 2013 Share #20 Posted February 15, 2013 Expectations, Photokina, the need for a 'new' I personally think they are behind where they thought they would be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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