M8 + CV15: best post processing solutions to fix for shooting in mixed lighting

[sparkie]

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Did some shots on friday and there was mixed lighting, some daylight + tungsten, some daylight + fluorescent. I tried manual white balance with a white sheet but the previews looked off still, tried all the other settings but "daylight" looked the best, but was way too warm. Is there a way to easily fix these shots? profiles?

 

Setup: M8 shot in RAW with CV15 with no IR CUT filter, set on "daylight" setting

 

I'm thinking maybe I should have tried an ExpoDisc. has anyone tried one with an M8 and does it work. Problem with the VC 15 is how do you attach the expodisc, the same messy way as trying to attach an IR CUT filter i guess

[stephengilbert]

I've tried both the ExpoDisc and the WhiBal card, and think the WhiBal cards gets better results. I'm not well enough versed in post processing to advise you about what to do with the shots you already have, but I'm sure someone will have some advise.

 

Steve

[sparkie]

thanks for the response steve. i was thinking what a pain it would be to use an expodisc on top of an IR CUT filter. i have not used a whibal before. is that basically a reference card to shoot within a pic and then sample the white balance of it in post?

 

i find the white balance presets are so way off compared to my canon. have leica fixed this yet?

[cbretteville]

Sparkie,

You got it. I've used WhiBal for a coupple of years. Not all that much use for it with the D2, but for the M8 it has become a permanent part of my kit. I use the 'pocket' size.

 

I've no relation with them, other than being a user. Check out the instructions videos posted on the WhiBal site. You can see how it works berfore ordering. I wouldn't part with mine. White Balance Reference - WhiBal Gray Card - Digital Photo RAW Workflow

 

Cheers,

- Carl

[Guest stnami]

I've used WhiBal for a coupple of years. Not all that much use for it with the D2, but for the M8 it has become a permanent part of my kit. I use the 'pocket' size.

...............pretty friggin sad when a camera forces one to work in this manner:(

[sean_reid]

...............pretty friggin sad when a camera forces one to work in this manner:(

 

For critical color work, I use a WhiBal with every digital camera.

 

With respect to mixed lighting...if some areas of the subject are lit by warmer light and some by cooler then one has three options (with *any* camera, film or digital):

 

1. Balance the color for the warmer area and let the other be bluish

2. Balance the color for the cooler area and let the other be warm

3. Set a compromise color balance that's in between

 

Otherwise, one needs to do work in post. This is a challenge in photography generally.

 

Cheers,

[joern]

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...............pretty friggin sad when a camera forces one to work in this manner:(

 

No - it dosn´t forces one. It helps one to get the best out of it.

Some like drinking wine right out of a bottle. Some prefer decanting first.

The same wine with totally different taste. At least for the one who tried both.

I have learned that over the years:

The better the camera (and its profile) the more WB takes effect.

 

jørn

 

@ Sean

You are right. I do it the same way. And i would like to add one point:

4. Try a profile of an other camera. Sometimes this works wonder.

[Guest stnami]

well then.....................

[sparkie]

Sparkie,

You got it. I've used WhiBal for a coupple of years. Not all that much use for it with the D2, but for the M8 it has become a permanent part of my kit. I use the 'pocket' size.

 

I've no relation with them, other than being a user. Check out the instructions videos posted on the WhiBal site. You can see how it works berfore ordering. I wouldn't part with mine. White Balance Reference - WhiBal Gray Card - Digital Photo RAW Workflow

 

Cheers,

- Carl

 

 

what RAW processor are you using? – I'm using a copy of trial lightroom. have to check out where the whitebalance dropper tool is!

 

guess with the whibal you'd have to snap it in every room before shooting as the light will change or be different from room to room. i suppose its no different than having to change out filters the old-fashioned way

[sparkie]

No - it dosn´t forces one. It helps one to get the best out of it.

Some like drinking wine right out of a bottle. Some prefer decanting first.

The same wine with totally different taste. At least for the one who tried both.

I have learned that over the years:

The better the camera (and its profile) the more WB takes effect.

 

jørn

 

@ Sean

You are right. I do it the same way. And i would like to add one point:

4. Try a profile of an other camera. Sometimes this works wonder.

 

 

hi jørn

is there a profile that can be used for the M8 that makes things easier?

[sparkie]

stnami, this is a particular weak point in the M8. the whitebalance presets and AWB need some serious fixing!

 

sean, i didn't shoot with an IR CUT filter on. I dont know if you have tested this, but do you know if an IR CUT filter helps in getting a better WB result, or does it not make a difference?

[joern]

well then.....................

you too ;-)

[joern]

hi jørn

is there a profile that can be used for the M8 that makes things easier?

 

Hi Sparkie,

LOL, no, there isn´t. Not general. What i mean is that if you try an other profile from a different manufacturer than Leica it sometimes could make it easier to balance the differences.

I have made some good experiences with profiles for the P30 and Lightphase from PhaseOne. And the color editor in C1 Pro is gorgeous. Then converting to CMYK and final adjusting with PS.

jørn

[grober]

I've tried both the ExpoDisc and the WhiBal card, and think the WhiBal cards gets better results. I'm not well enough versed in post processing to advise you about what to do with the shots you already have, but I'm sure someone will have some advise.

 

Steve

 

 

Steve (or Sean):

 

Question on usage of the WhiBal tool -- you snap a picture of it at arm's length in the ambiant lighting conditions of your environment with the M8 set to "Auto" yes? Then you'll have a accurate standard of what true color is (for that environment.)

 

Set to "Auto" not 'manual" right?

 

-g

[sean_reid]

stnami, this is a particular weak point in the M8. the whitebalance presets and AWB need some serious fixing!

 

sean, i didn't shoot with an IR CUT filter on. I dont know if you have tested this, but do you know if an IR CUT filter helps in getting a better WB result, or does it not make a difference?

 

Yes, the IR cut filter can improve the auto WB but let's make sure we clarify the issues here.

 

1. Auto WB in the M8 needs improvement but I don't trust auto WB in any camera for color-critical work. Shooting in RAW with a Whi-Bal reference is what I do for virtually all client work.

 

2. Even if a camera had perfect AWB in all conditions, mixed lighting would still pose a problem. If the light coloration is evenly mixed throughout the subject area, it can be color-balanced. But if some parts of the frame are cooler (or warmer) than others than one must choose one of the options I described above.

 

So AWB accuracy and mixed lighting challenges can be two very different issues.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

Steve (or Sean):

 

Question on usage of the WhiBal tool -- you snap a picture of it at arm's length in the ambiant lighting conditions of your environment with the M8 set to "Auto" yes? Then you'll have a accurate standard of what true color is (for that environment.)

 

Set to "Auto" not 'manual" right?

 

-g

 

It doesn't matter a bit what WB the camera is set to because you'll be setting WB directly by sampling the card with an eyedropper in RAW conversion. The camera WB settings won't apply at all. One could also use the card in the field to create a custom WB (for JPEG shooting) but that's a different kettle of fish.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[robertwright]

Yes, the IR cut filter can improve the auto WB but let's make sure we clarify the issues here.

 

1. Auto WB in the M8 needs improvement but I don't trust auto WB in any camera for color-critical work. Shooting in RAW with a Whi-Bal reference is what I do for virtually all client work.

 

2. Even if a camera had perfect AWB in all conditions, mixed lighting would still pose a problem. If the light coloration is evenly mixed throughout the subject area, it can be color-balanced. But if some parts of the frame are cooler (or warmer) than others than one must choose one of the options I described above.

 

So AWB accuracy and mixed lighting challenges can be two very different issues.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

this is the whole thing, wb depends on what you are shooting, controlled studio or location is completely different. In the studio shooting targets is practical and usually produces exact results and you have all the factors in control. On location it is a different matter, and I find that it does not help too much to shoot a target in mixed lighting. That only gives you a reference for that position in the frame, and moving around a room for example, it is not going to give you much to go on.

 

Just like in the color darkroom, you have to trust your eyes and learn to see color casts and adjust them in post. There is no automatic method in the "real world." In the beginning, shooting targets can help identify color casts, but ultimately you need to be able to adjust by eye. Eye-droppers etc are shortcuts and speed workflow, but they are not blindly reliable.

 

Besides, color is a personal choice, and there is no "correct" balance in any picture beyond what you desire. This is especially true of mixed lighting situations where it is often essential to preserve the character of the light. I never liked color prints that were blindly neutral, or insensitive to what things really look like.

[sparkie]

Hi Sparkie,

LOL, no, there isn´t. Not general. What i mean is that if you try an other profile from a different manufacturer than Leica it sometimes could make it easier to balance the differences.

I have made some good experiences with profiles for the P30 and Lightphase from PhaseOne. And the color editor in C1 Pro is gorgeous. Then converting to CMYK and final adjusting with PS.

jørn

 

 

ok, thanks

[sparkie]

Yes, the IR cut filter can improve the auto WB but let's make sure we clarify the issues here.

 

1. Auto WB in the M8 needs improvement but I don't trust auto WB in any camera for color-critical work. Shooting in RAW with a Whi-Bal reference is what I do for virtually all client work.

 

2. Even if a camera had perfect AWB in all conditions, mixed lighting would still pose a problem. If the light coloration is evenly mixed throughout the subject area, it can be color-balanced. But if some parts of the frame are cooler (or warmer) than others than one must choose one of the options I described above.

 

So AWB accuracy and mixed lighting challenges can be two very different issues.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

 

 

sorry I meant to say "does a IR CUT filter give better results when using WB presets" (eg. daylight, tungsten etc..) as opposed to AWB. I never use AWB as its too variable.

 

thanks for the information

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Hallo,

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[sparkie]

very true robert. as you say neutralising an image completely almost always strips away the atmospheric qualities which is what 'makes' the image sing in the first place