Worth it to swith from M7 leatherette covering to MP or Vulkanite covering?

[philipus]

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Here's a photo of my M6TTL Millennium which, as I understand it, has the M7 leatherette (please correct me if I am wrong).

M6TTL BP with Summitar | Flickr

 

I sometimes find that this material/pattern is slippery and not very "grippy". I have an M4 and I have used an M3 in the past and I have found them to have much better grip. So I was wondering if it would be worth it to change to another type. I looked at the à la carte konfigurator and the seemingly very fine-grained MP and the coarsely grained Vulkanite coverings caught my eye.

 

I'd be very interested in hearing from anyone who has experience of these two coverings vis-a-vis the M7 (if that's what my camera has) covering.

 

Thanks in advance

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[CalArts 99]

I have the M6 with the same leatherette cover as you. I also have the M4 with Vulcanite. I personally don't have a preference of one over the other and I don't find the M6 to be too slippery.

 

I did own the MP once. I disliked the "sharkskin' cover. It felt weird in my hands; it's like fine sandpaper. I also personally don't like the look of it.

 

I don't think Leica uses the real Vulcanite anymore. It was a one-piece vulcanized rubber that was heated up and attached to the body (Camera Repairs & Restoration Luton England <p> Vulcanite coverings as used on Leica Cameras from 1920's) The new Leica Vulcanite I believe is just heavier grained leatherette material.

 

If it were between the MP sandpaper skin and the new 'Vulcanite' leatherette, I'd personally choose the 'Vulcanite' leatherette. Otherwise, I'd stick with the current M6/M7 leatherette.

 

Aki-Asahi has a leatherette that is similar to M3/M4 vulcanite. I've seen it on a camera and it looks and feels good. http://www.aki-asahi.com/store/html/M6/index.php

[thrid]

The M7 covering is slightly less slippery than what is used on the M6/M6ttl. In very cold weather my ttl is about as easy to hold on to as a wet bar of soap. My M7 feels better. The 'sharkskin' on the MP has a pretty good grip.

 

The bodies with real vulcanite (M3/M2/M4/M5M4-2/M4-P(?) are the least slippery factory finishes.

 

The 'vulcanite' finish on the modern MP/M7 is not the same thing as the original. Real vulcanite is rubber that is fused on to the bodyshell using heat and pressure. The only place left that can do a real vulcanite covering is Luton in the UK. The modern bodies use a sticky sided covering that emulates the vulcanite pattern. IMO the fake or ersatz vulcanite on the new bodies offers better grip than what was used on the M6 series.

 

There are some aftermaket fake vulcanite coverings. I purchased one for my M2 and it's pretty good and a lot less slippery than my M6 or M7.

[philipus]

Thanks very much for this wealth of information, and especially for your personal experiences with the different coverings.

 

Today I brought with me to work my trusty old Leica II and again noticed how nice that old material is. It is "dry" somehow, which I guess also means it is fairly brittle, particularly in colder temperatures (an interesting read, btw, on the CRR Luton website).

 

Aki-Asahi's coverings look very nice (I only find photos of the 4008 leatherette, though, not the other two types, 4040 and 4044, but perhaps they are the same). The task of removing the old covering and applying the new does seem quite daunting to me, though. CRR's £95 would probably be worth it, I think.

[kokoshawnuff]

If you look at the used M7s available at any given time, you'll notice many of them have coverings that appear to be pealing up at the baseplate and top plate, I've never seen this with an M6 or M6ttl so at least the adhesive (if not the whole covering) is different.

 

I'd recommend the black pebble emboss from Aki (I think it's $28USD, but can't recall the reference #), its very close to the modern Leica ALC vulcanite. Also, removing and applying coverings is really pretty easy since they come with self adhesives...even with the self timers on M3/M2 nothing about it is a daunting task. Good luck

[thrid]

It's been a few years, but I'm pretty sure this is what I ordered. I'm very satisfied with the covering. Feels good in the hand and offers good grip.

 

http://www.aki-asahi.com/store/html/M2/LeicaM2.php

[hoppyman]

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Hi again Philip. I do believe that I have met that camera on tour Personally I always liked the slighty soft and grippable feel of the M7 covering, even over original Vulkanit covered cameras and over the sandpaper like material on the MP. However familiarity is no doubt a factor.

 

I would like to throw an option C into your question

Have you considered the lower profile Leica handgrip M grip that fits these cameras instead?. It is quite a bit neater and smaller than the later designs for M8/9 for example. I found that it improves security especially in portrait hold. You might be able o find a used example for a reasonable cost?

[madNbad]

Hey! I have the same camera and even the same lens. (but no M adapter). Most of the time the Millennium spends its' time in a half case but I do have a ML grip from Photo Equip which works quite well. The Summitar is from a IIIC I bought from one of my wife's friends and was actually a Cameraleather success story. Morgan recovered the IIIC with gray Griptac and it looks and feels great. Maybe someday I'll work up the courage to send him the Millennium. The covering on the M6 TTL is a little slick but maybe a grip would be more in order. Are you using a Leitz adapter or some other make for the Summitar?

[TomB_tx]

Are you using a Leitz adapter or some other make for the Summitar?

I have both '39 and '48 Summitars. The '48 came on a IIIc and the '39 (uncoated) on a '55 M3 I just acquired. I've used both Leitz and Voigtlander adapters. I've taken a micrometer to both and the Voigtlander seem fully equivalent to the Leitz and equal quality, and are easily available from CameraQuest.

The Voigtlander is available in the "full round" format without the cut-down area needed for the infinity lock on a 3.5 Elmar, so the full round can also be coded for use on an M9.

[pico]

[...]I would like to throw an option C into your question

Have you considered the lower profile Leica handgrip M grip that fits these cameras instead?. It is quite a bit neater and smaller than the later designs for M8/9 for example. I found that it improves security especially in portrait hold. You might be able o find a used example for a reasonable cost?

 

I'm glad you broke the ice with that suggestion. A grip is one of the things I use on most of my Leicas today. A particular advantage is that I can use different grips depending upon application, for example when using Winter gloves. I have also added stair-tread strips to one of them.

 

Finally, as long as we are deviating, I often wear thin gloves which have textured finger tip and palm areas so that I can manage any camera without worry. Oh, and the right index finger has a 'touch' point for electronic screens.

[payasam]

I had my last M3 re-covered with Griptac; and I must say the feel of the material was the best I have come across.

[madNbad]

Here's the Millennium with the ML grip and the IIIC with the gray Griptac.

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[lincoln_m]

Philip,

Yes you are right in hot weather M7 or M6TTL are slippery. I have the MP with the grippy covering and that is very good even in the heat as it's never slipped out of my hand. I also have an M2 with the old vulcanite covering and that is also a very grippy covering. I'm not so sure that the new A la Carte Vulcanite covering is the same as the old 1950's, 1960's one on my M2. If you do change I can vouch for the MP covering but you'd have to interrogate Leica on if the vulcanite is as good as the old days.

 

Good luck, Lincoln

[thrid]

I'm not so sure that the new A la Carte Vulcanite covering is the same as the old 1950's, 1960's one on my M2.

 

Unfortunately the a la carte covering is also 'ersatz' vulcanite. Nobodyy still makes the real thing, except for Luton in the UK. They can restore a shell by covering it with real vulcanite.

 

I'm surprised that Leica doesn't offer real vulcanite as an option and charge an arm and a leg for it.

[dk_samurai]

Luton can only apply new real vulcanite to pre-M6 cameras. This is due to the electronic ISO selector on the rear door.

 

I'd skip Leica's own new fake vulcantie, because it's not very wear resistant. I had it on my MP for a few months and it was visibly starting to wear away (near the strap lugs, where the strap was at the downward angle and I had tensed it by wrapping it around my wrist). Aki-Asahi's vulcanite might be a better solution.

 

Griptac has been mentioned and yes, it's very grippy. Though I didn't like the feel, as in my opinion it's more grippy due to the rough texture of the leatherette, rather than the friction of the material. Also the black color option is more of a dark-dark grey rather than true black.

 

I now have the standard MP covering, as it's grippy enough for me. Esthetically it's not the prettiest covering on a black paint M camera, but looks nice on a chrome/black chrome camera. I wouldn't hesitate using the MP covering on a black M7.

 

And I will also agree that simply adding a hand grip to your camera might be the best/easiest option. Have you seen this:

Get your SLING for the Leica M!

[payasam]

"Luton in the UK" would mean CRR.

[philipus]

Thanks for option C, Geoff! This is what I really like about this forum, new ideas and perspectives come up; I hadn't even considered adding a handgrip. I will look into this because it may be the best way. In most situations the covering on my camera is OK so having a handgrip may give me ultimate flexibility.

 

Are you using a Leitz adapter or some other make for the Summitar?

 

Thanks for posting the photo of your cameras, very helpful! That ML grip, does one have to remove it in order to load the film?

 

I use a Voigtländer 50 adapter. I actually use it with all my screwmount lenses regardless of focal length (it's the only adapter I have), which is why I really like the frame preview lever. From memory, the only lens the adapter causes a slight problem is with the 2.8cm Hektor where I can't leave the adapter on the camera and unscrew the lens due to the infinity lock.

[madNbad]

The ML grip attaches to the tripod mount and is designed to allow access to the plate lock allowing the user to change film without having to remove the grip. The grip itself is manufactured from aluminum and the hand grip is coated with a rubber like material. The tripod mount is centered and there is also additional storage for batteries. I believe the web site is PhotoEquip.com. Plus it comes in either black or silver. I use it occasionally on the Millennium but mostly it rides in a half case. I have used it with the 111C and even though it's a little large for that camera it is nice to have something extra to hold on to. Thanks for the information on the LTM adapter. I would love to use the Summitar more often especially on the M.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[xalo]

Luton can only apply new real vulcanite to pre-M6 cameras. This is due to the electronic ISO selector on the rear door.

 

I'd skip Leica's own new fake vulcantie, because it's not very wear resistant. I had it on my MP for a few months and it was visibly starting to wear away (near the strap lugs, where the strap was at the downward angle and I had tensed it by wrapping it around my wrist). Aki-Asahi's vulcanite might be a better solution.

 

Griptac has been mentioned and yes, it's very grippy. Though I didn't like the feel, as in my opinion it's more grippy due to the rough texture of the leatherette, rather than the friction of the material. Also the black color option is more of a dark-dark grey rather than true black.

 

I now have the standard MP covering, as it's grippy enough for me. Esthetically it's not the prettiest covering on a black paint M camera, but looks nice on a chrome/black chrome camera. I wouldn't hesitate using the MP covering on a black M7.

 

And I will also agree that simply adding a hand grip to your camera might be the best/easiest option. Have you seen this:

Get your SLING for the Leica M!

 

Thanks to all who pointed to Luton re/pre M6. That's where my M5's rear door may go one day. But I'm really astonished that the MP 'fake vulcanite' did wear so quickly on your camera, dk_samurai. Basically no wear on mine since four years. Perhaps because I often do use a half case (semi-rigid M4 case, also adds heft and grip).

 

My recently acquired M5 made me aware of the difference in grip between the original vulcanite and the material on the MP. No contest, the surface of the vulcanite adheres much better to the hands. The older vulcanite on the M3 seems to be less grippy (drier probably?). Still, I like the MP's pebbled covering much better than what I had on the M6 and M6TTL. I've fixed the highly commendable Sling on my Ms (with their Slings the MP or M3 fit into the M4 half case). Not useable with gloves, obviously.

 

Alexander

[Susie]

Just to add something to the Vulcanite story!

 

I recently had my 111f overhauled by Peter at CRR Luton, during which he removed the covering and re-glued it, as it was starting to become detached, but not chipped.

 

In conversation with him, it appears that the vulcanite (including that on the early M's) was attached before the casting was machined, hence the screw heads are visible on the body. Later models had the covering applied near the end of assembly, hence no screws are visible.

 

Susie