viramati Posted October 18, 2012 Share #41 Posted October 18, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I traded in my m9-P for an MM. I was converting 90% of my files to black and white anyway. Have had no regrets, and am astounded by what the MM is capable of. Certainly the files are flat straight out of the camera, but that's exactly what you want. A flat file retains all the information required for burning and dodging. Here is a shot from the MM. Best regards all, Colin Absolutely true the MM's DNG should be regarded as a 'Negative' and starting point for processing just as in the good old film days Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 Hi viramati, Take a look here Should I cancel my MM order?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
MarkP Posted October 18, 2012 Share #42 Posted October 18, 2012 Absolutely true the MM's DNG should be regarded as a 'Negative' and starting point for processing just as in the good old film days Beat me to it. I completely agree with you and Colin. The original or Raw-converted file should be neutral with all of the information available for further post-processing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonki-M Posted October 18, 2012 Share #43 Posted October 18, 2012 i knew the cause of this thread before i even opened it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted October 18, 2012 Share #44 Posted October 18, 2012 ... I want just one M and it's an MM or my M9-P. ... If you see an entirely black and white future for yourself, you know the answer. If you want a more versatile digital M either wait for the new M or continue to master your M9-P Simple! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted October 18, 2012 Share #45 Posted October 18, 2012 Lastly the bus image at 1600 ISO..flat? Yes, definitely flat and grey as are the others in your post. Maybe that's the look you are going for. But it does not show that the MM can produce files which are any better than the ones from ordinary mft or aps-c sensors converted into b&w. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted October 18, 2012 Share #46 Posted October 18, 2012 Thank you John, eloquently said.Most of that comes form this post here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/other/255311-leica-monochrom-shots-8.html#post2209859 I don't see you coming into defend me here? Maybe I missed it. Anyway, this person who relies on 40 years of experience (said over and over and over) if you care to follow his threads, basically says I use a photo copier, the camera is beyond me, and welcome to the black and white world, maybe some day you will get it. Pardon me, picked up my first camera 6 years ago, Leica has bought numerous images from me, including LFI where 2 images of mine are featured along with 11 images of mine as you wait for the LFI iPad App to load. He blathers on about how if you are lucky enough to take my first class teaching for the Leica Akademie coming up, (I have been doing it for years). Then admits he's never gotten a good print out of a M9 after doing a conversion (I have been getting magnificent prints with a list of clients that have been ordering them for years). And I'm the f*cking amateur here?! Anyway JOHN, if you care to take even the most cursory checks of our dear Forum you would see this person STARTED it. And YES, I feel most of his posts are bland and boring, as one person says, probably canceling their order. Dare I say it, I'm sure he's never gone into the bush and had AK-47s pointed to his head, as well as spears up against his scrotum to get the shot. I have. In fact it is very obvious that he is afraid of shooting people. the back sides of statues seem more his liking. (To each their own). Dear John (cliche, I know), feel free to put me on your Ignore List,as you are now on mine, not for what you said, thank you for that, but the fact you didn't even give the slightest look around before making the comment. Fel free to continue sticking up for this individual as i won't see your comments. As I explore this camera (as i have done with everyone before this) and fully intend to use contrast filters at the most inopportune times, against HIS suggestion, I will discover things rather than be locked in a box. Example Yellow-Green: only for Landscapes. I'll use it for portraits only because everyone tells me not to . And his Images ARE FLAT! When I decide to print images,probably after my 10 day get away to Paris with wife to take her to a Ball (Princess Catherine deStigliano beckoning me once again.), while I shoot the city from Morning to Dusk and beyond I will continue to make prints that will blow obviously only myself away. If I decide to blow highlights, it is because I wanted to. if I decide to block shadows, the same. But John, feel free to continue to stick up for this....(edited by author) Thamk you, no need to send my links anywhere. William - I'm not going to put you on my ignore list, and I hope you don't put me on yours. I now see the thread that put you off, and the poster. As I had just posted a photo before him, I thought you were directing your comment at me, and it hurt my feelings. Your work needs no defense; it's terrific. And I'll continue to enjoy it. JB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted October 18, 2012 Share #47 Posted October 18, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) i saw two mini exhibitions today of b+w prints from an M9-P then an MM, at two different locations. whilst the prints from the M9-P were really nice, those from the MM were noticeably better. i think it depends on what you're expecting to achieve with your camera. both are amazing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted October 18, 2012 Share #48 Posted October 18, 2012 i saw two mini exhibitions today of b+w prints from an M9-P then an MM, at two different locations. whilst the prints from the M9-P were really nice, those from the MM were noticeably better. i think it depends on what you're expecting to achieve with your camera. both are amazing. In which respect noticable better??? I only see and hear people raving about sharpness, detaill and noisefree high iso capabilities. Well all 3 mean almost nothing to me. How about tonalities??? I see a lot of MM files posted on the net that look worse than M8 off camera jpegs. I also see over the top processed MM files that almost look like HDR images: overly digital. So it all comes down to processing skills and personal taste as with any digital camera. I am still sitting on the fence to jump on the MM but i passed the camera my local shop had available for me for now. I am still not convinced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
insomnia Posted October 18, 2012 Share #49 Posted October 18, 2012 Oh, and here is another from the MM, at the opposite end of the spectrum. 3200 ISO - I couldn't even have thought about a shot like this with my M9-P. Yeah, right - 1/750s and ISO 2500. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted October 18, 2012 Share #50 Posted October 18, 2012 3200 ISO 1/250th at night.. Files from the MM can really look however you want them. Easier to work with too.. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/190334-should-i-cancel-my-mm-order/?do=findComment&comment=2144398'>More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted October 18, 2012 Share #51 Posted October 18, 2012 John, In no way was my comment meant towards you and your wonderful work or that of Avatar. in fact in Avatars case I have noticed a striking improvement IMHO from his first post to what he is producing now. John, I have always enjoyed peeking in on your blog. A Picture or two and to the point. keep up the good work. My apologies if I gave you even the slightest consternation. Colin's work just rocks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted October 18, 2012 Share #52 Posted October 18, 2012 I don't post here much any more as I no longer own any Leica equipment, but I'd like to say that I don't think it's the cameras sensitivity to light that really matters - it's the photographer's. I know Rolo and have seen him at work. What his ability brings to his shots cannot be bought; it is a skill that has been developed over many years. Such ability more than negates the minor differences found between camera models. If you wish to improve your images, best to concentrate upon how you spend your time and not your money... Bob. Sir, I couldn't agree with you more. Gary and I have been email buddies for years, two of the few Leica ambassadors who liked to joke around about the calling. In fact, we are in the beginning of a meet and greet discussion to happen possibly when I am in Paris in the next couple of weeks. The guise is I would like to meet him. The truth is that I am going to pick his head for so long that he had better bring plenty of Aspirin. The height of my photographic carreer is not being featured by LFI, but when LFI created a triptych with my image (Burmese girls in pink) and one of Mr. Rowlands brilliant B&Ws. It is still there on the LFI splash page. A photographer I had admired for years. Also, they put the same images next to each other the day the M9 was released for the initial Leica marketing of the camera. That was it for me, car accident, whatever, I've reached it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 18, 2012 Share #53 Posted October 18, 2012 gjames9142, you picture shows a characteristic of the MM that seems common to most MM images: strong shadow contrast. It will be interesting if it becomes apparent to other persons. In a good way the character brands the images much as Panatonic-X did among films. Thank you for the picture. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Chuck Posted October 18, 2012 Share #54 Posted October 18, 2012 3200 ISO 1/250th at night.. Files from the MM can really look however you want them. Easier to work with too.. I love the comic book one. I did the same thing with my MM when i first opened it that these guys are doing. Sat down on the floor, opened it up, and laid it all out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Holy Moly Posted October 18, 2012 Share #55 Posted October 18, 2012 In which respect noticable better??? I only see and hear people raving about sharpness, detaill and noisefree high iso capabilities. Well all 3 mean almost nothing to me. How about tonalities??? I see a lot of MM files posted on the net that look worse than M8 off camera jpegs. I also see over the top processed MM files that almost look like HDR images: overly digital. So it all comes down to processing skills and personal taste as with any digital camera. I am still sitting on the fence to jump on the MM but i passed the camera my local shop had available for me for now. I am still not convinced. The sensor of the MM has no 'shoulders' as b&w films have. Contrary to the M9 with it's Bayer pattern and the interpolation between pixels, the MM photo sites are more prone to create the blown out effect. Digital cams with Bayer sensor behave more like film compare to the MM. The Bayer pattern reduces this digital effect which we know since we use digital cams. At flickr, Dpreview etc. there are so much pics which show partial blown parts especially in faces or other parts which are more exposed to light. Therefor to protect these parts, the total pic must be screwed down in EV and later pulled up in PP. Nasty effects occur when PP isn't done from really trained specialists. To use a dedicated colored filter as in the past may help but the overall influence for the sake of let's say 2% image area is sometimes to heavy. For me the beginning of shooting with the MM reminds me of the launch of the M8. At first the magenta problem had been the problem of the untrained photographer, later it was the unfinished firmware and after this, Leica got the solution...... For me the MM is only a color-sucker but not a true b&w cam especially when I take the price into these considerations........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted October 18, 2012 Share #56 Posted October 18, 2012 In which respect noticable better??? i think the only way you can answer this question for yourself is by looking at physical prints on a wall. the only reason i posted was to help you & because until now, i'd only been making comparisons for myself online. the prints i saw today were from my M9-P & my own new exhibition but on a personal level, they didn't quite translate from monitor to paper what prints from the MM exhibition were. both sets looked great..it's hard to be objective about one's own work when it goes public but the MM prints appeared better..sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzo Posted October 18, 2012 Share #57 Posted October 18, 2012 I don't post here much any more as I no longer own any Leica equipment, but I'd like to say that I don't think it's the cameras sensitivity to light that really matters - it's the photographer's. I know Rolo and have seen him at work. What his ability brings to his shots cannot be bought; it is a skill that has been developed over many years. Such ability more than negates the minor differences found between camera models. If you wish to improve your images, best to concentrate upon how you spend your time and not your money... Bob. Excellent !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 18, 2012 Share #58 Posted October 18, 2012 I have been going back and forth about whether I should cancel my MM order. I want just one M and it's an MM or my M9-P. Steve Huff just posted this on his site which isn't helping. Daily Inspiration #363 by Luiz Paulo – B&W with his M9 | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS As one commenter put it, the MM's dynamic range does appear to render things a bit harsher, which is a big consideration. YES, cancel it so I can get a second one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted October 19, 2012 Share #59 Posted October 19, 2012 YES, cancel it so I can get a second one! Don't even joke around..I got another one coming next week..just got the call...for a friend... I couldn't get him on the phone to confirm but I've asked me many times if he was sure.. if he bails, I am taking it...lol...and the 24mm Summicron I ordered for him! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 19, 2012 Share #60 Posted October 19, 2012 Actually I already have had 2 and sold the first to a lucky person. It would be a third for backup just in case something happens to the 2nd one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.