brunom Posted March 16, 2007 Share #21 Posted March 16, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Steve Don't you think that with a separate digi photo section we will end up with 2 bodies of work, one film based and the other digitally originated which would be helpful in enabling us to see differences between the two media ? Bruno Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 16, 2007 Posted March 16, 2007 Hi brunom, Take a look here Too many catagories for the forum. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest stnami Posted March 16, 2007 Share #22 Posted March 16, 2007 M8 Problems Bruno I reckon that Leica are missing out on a once in a lifetime event if the fail to adopt this option...... if only they did it would be a, well different Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 16, 2007 Share #23 Posted March 16, 2007 Don't you think that with a separate digi photo section we will end up with 2 bodies of work, one film based and the other digitally originated which would be helpful in enabling us to see differences between the two media ? I'm afraid I don't Bruno. The original reason for making the suggestion was that the individual who proposed it didn't want to look at digital images as they were uploaded by people 'dumping their SD cards' to the photo forum and swamping it with inferior images. I've maintained the view all along that I'm interested in the photograph not the means of producing it. This is just my opinion others are free to disagree :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 16, 2007 Share #24 Posted March 16, 2007 I wholeheartedly disagree with splitting the photo section into digital and film areas. By the mere fact that film images have been digitised in order to be viewed here, they are ALL digital photographs. Hybrids, in fact. (FWIW, Steve, IMHO, there is actually very little difference between someone who "dumps" an SD card onto the forum and someone who "dumps" a similar number of shots from a single film shoot. In fact, there is NO difference at all.) I sometimes contribute to, and oftentimes look at, the photo forums to look at and appreciate the photographs. I personally don't wish to know whether a shot is "pure" digital or "hybrid" digital prior to opening a new thread - I'd rather judge the image on its merits, rather than any prejudice I may or may not have against one or other media. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted March 16, 2007 Share #25 Posted March 16, 2007 I don't support the creation of different forums for digital and film sourced images. Photos are photos and should be discussed and compared together. However, so many of the M8 images being published are not about the image, but about the camera and I've had enough of those to last me till my M9 arrives. I'd prefer these "my M8 still works" shots to be contained within the Digital Forum, or within an M8 Forum, as they relate more to the hardware and its problems rather than celebrating what can be done with it. In time hopefully, more owners of the M8 will get past the novelty and problems of ownership and start to share the selected results of their endeavours with us in the Photo Forums. If you're interested, I've got 648 digital captures from last weekends wedding to upload. Maybe not. Rolo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted March 16, 2007 Share #26 Posted March 16, 2007 Rolo - I couldn't agree with you more. As I've stated previously, I'll be happy when I stop seeing "M8" after picture descriptions at top of thread, or various lens test with the M8 in title. We've seen that it's a capable tool on more than one occasion. As far as the "SD dumping" debate - my perception (and this applies to the internet in general) is that digital photography has allowed for an ever expanding universe of family albums, travelogues and noise. Yes, film can now be scanned onto CD's as it's processed - I have it done all the time. But with the advent of P&S digital cameras, there is more flotsam and jetsam out there than ever before. There's some good content out there, but in many cases, there's just alot of noise. I think the photo forums as they are now are fine - I look at what I feel like. I browse most of the english forums here - I have an interest in all things Leica. I use my gear, and I have collectable pieces as well. I'm well versed in digital, and I am sure I will eventually own a digital M body. A seperate M8 (or digital M forum) is a nice idea since it's such a hot topic. DMR & other Leica / Panasonic digital variations get lost quickly, as has been stated. I think it would be helpful for those who are sick of "all M8, all the time" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted March 16, 2007 Share #27 Posted March 16, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Can i also add, and hopefully DDP will agree with this too, that I sadly miss the photo contributions on the Deutsches Leica Forum. I often go down there to sniff around their pics, but get frustrated by the language. This is my shortcoming, not theirs, but I do wish I was encouraged to review this minority groups pics by having UK english titles. Rolo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunom Posted March 16, 2007 Share #28 Posted March 16, 2007 One of the reasons I would have liked [ not prefer ] separate sections for film and digi images, is to see, definitively, that on a computer there is really no or very little diference, for the reasons given, between the two types of media but I have to concede that as long as there is some indication of how the image was made, having them all together might be better! But - a digitised version of a photographic 'may' be different from a straight digi image? Knowing what equipment was used to achieve any particular image is useful as a guide to what that equipment is capable of Bruno. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted March 16, 2007 Share #29 Posted March 16, 2007 separate sections for film and digi images,... some of my images are hybrids of both and there are many others who post pricess in a big way maybe not as much as me but the line blurrs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambroving Posted March 16, 2007 Share #30 Posted March 16, 2007 I wholeheartedly disagree with splitting the photo section into digital and film areas. By the mere fact that film images have been digitised in order to be viewed here, they are ALL digital photographs. Hybrids, in fact. Andy, Hopefully this is the last time I will hear this seriously flawed argument, it is certainly the last time I will comment on it..., BUT there is frequently a vast difference in representation between Leica M & R film capture and then digitized and presented here and what you get off the sensor and post. If what you are saying is that the representation you see here from film is inferior to what we see on a good print or projected slide from a Pradovit, then I would agree. This medium is inferior to a Cibachrome, decent C Print or even a really good digital print from film. If you doubt what I'm saying, just ask Marc Andrew Williams. Back on topic. Anyone with a critical eye can frequently see the difference, even here, depending on subject matter, between the rendition of textures, colors and shadow detail and the same sort of thing from Leica digital capture. Sometimes it's hard to tell, particularly from Conrad's DMR, whether the capture medium was film or digital. Not even a PS master though can create the missing texture from an M8 and you will see this in the next issue of LFI if you are subscribed. We have a wide range of tastes and interests on this Forum, so people will not always like what I show or what you show. It is, however, a Leica Forum and what these lenses can do is often captured far better on film (and with great simplicity) compared to what many can get on a DMR or M8. At least you have a DMR and the professional output I have seen from that rig still exceeds anything I've seen yet from an M8. If you still cannot agree with my point of view, that's fine. But privately and publicly here there is a large body of support for my perspective. Of course we will not split the Photo Forum. That was discussed to death and the final decision was Leica's anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambroving Posted March 16, 2007 Share #31 Posted March 16, 2007 I often go down there to sniff around their pics, but get frustrated by the language. This is my shortcoming, not theirs, but I do wish I was encouraged to review this minority groups pics by having UK english titles. Rolo Rolo, Too bad you don't speak German. In case you are unaware, unlike the old Leica Forum on the Leica Camera website, the German Forum does run this site, they are the majority, and they are not, in the main, greatly interested in what happens on this side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted March 16, 2007 Share #32 Posted March 16, 2007 The positive about splitting the photo section into digital and film areas is that there will be two distinct approaches and in time that will become evident. Thus leading to a greater flexasbiliyy in techniques of image making Take the post here http://www.leica-camera-user.com/people/18669-party-m8.html if that was in a digital photo forum the discussion would have been broader in the differences of image tone in a digital verses film context Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted March 16, 2007 Share #33 Posted March 16, 2007 Rolo,they are the majority, and they are not, in the main, greatly interested in what happens on this side. Think you got that wrong William. Right now there are 101 members viewing the English version and 34 viewing the German language version. A ratio of 4:1 in favour. Apart from the statistics, I am in favour of their contribution being added to ours for art's sake. Rolo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 16, 2007 Share #34 Posted March 16, 2007 In case you are unaware, unlike the old Leica Forum on the Leica Camera website, the German Forum does run this site, they are the majority, and they are not, in the main, greatly interested in what happens on this side. Sorry, but that is totally incorrect. As I write... Total posts in the International forum - 124112 Total posts in the German forum - 73580 Whether they are interested or not they _don't _ represent the majority. Unless of course you have some definition of majority that doesn't relate to the number of people looking at the forum or the number of the posts they make. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambroving Posted March 17, 2007 Share #35 Posted March 17, 2007 Think you got that wrong William. Right now there are 101 members viewing the English version and 34 viewing the German language version. A ratio of 4:1 in favour. Apart from the statistics, I am in favour of their contribution being added to ours for art's sake. Rolo Perhaps when you know me better you will know also that I never open my gob before engaging brain. While your statistics may be off because those lads are in bed, believe me when I tell you that, unlike the old Forum which was on the Leica website, the German side runs this Forum, has total control, and they have no great interest in our squabbles on the English side. That's the reality. Numbers mean little, but I'd expect a few Americans, Canadians, Australians and people in the Far East are coming online about now. I used to look in on that side a good bit but have been too busy lately. Often the photography was better..., and the image quality. We all have different tastes though and are looking for different things. If you see something you like, why don't you mail or PM the poster. Most have reasonable English. These days I can barely read German myself! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 17, 2007 Share #36 Posted March 17, 2007 ...have no great interest in our squabbles on the English side. From what I've heard they have more than enough squabbles of their own. I think the number of posts tells the true tale regarding the 'majority'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 17, 2007 Share #37 Posted March 17, 2007 Perhaps when you know me better you will know also that I never open my gob before engaging brain. While your statistics may be off because those lads are in bed, believe me when I tell you that, unlike the old Forum which was on the Leica website, the German side runs this Forum, has total control, and they have no great interest in our squabbles on the English side. William I think that you need to speak with Ron. --------------------- Rolo Perhaps I can put the record straight here a little about the "running" of the Forum? I would welcome Andreas's input here too, should my understanding of the world be different from what is actually the case, although, of course, I don't believe it is. There are no "sides" - there is a German language section, and an International (predominantly English) section. 1. The forum is owned and admin'd by Andreas. He is German. 2. The forum is sponsored, in the main, by Leica. They are German. 3. In addition to Andreas, there are two German mods. They are German. 4. There are five International mods. One in the UK, three in the US and one in Oz. To the best of my knowledge, none of them are German. These are the people who "run the forum". Andreas is an excellent communicator who consults with all the mods over changes and proposals to the Forum. We all contribute to suggestions for improvements and changes and when we have agreed, these things happen. The people who post on the German section do not "run" it any more than the posters on the International side. They have no more control over it than individual posters on the International section. I think that it is extremely important to understand that the International section of this forum is at least as important as the German one. We are not "second class" forum members, as might be construed from things that have been written here and to say that any of the German people who are involved in the running of the site have no interest in what goes on in the International section is nonsense. It's also worth noting that there are a significant number of German posters who contribute to the International section now, something that rarely happened at all under the old forum. Maybe it's time to leave the old forum in the past, and look forward to the future with this one? It's nearly a year since the old one was phased out, after all. I hope that this allows us all to enjoy contributing to the forum without thinking that we are merely an adjunct to where the "real" action is on the German section. This is absolutely not the case. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted March 17, 2007 Share #38 Posted March 17, 2007 Andy who is the boy from Oz who defected to the side of truth and glory:rolleyes: it a wasn't me who wrote that.. On a more serious note, what's going to happen to the digital forum, right now unless it is about the m8 it's not even worthwhile going there. As much as some of us try to diversify the forum we get swamped by well....... we get swamped and aany thread is lost within the hour have a gander right now 2 non m8 threads in two pages It is like a club now, special members only ... nothing against the m but there is more to life than that, and every D-Lux user has disappeared Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambroving Posted March 17, 2007 Share #39 Posted March 17, 2007 William I think that you need to speak with Ron. Andy, I do, in fact, speak, with Ron frequently. IMO you are living in a dream world. As for Andreas, he has not returned any of my mails for months and another mod informs me he is not much better with him. This is definitely a very different, read unfriendly, place vs. the old Forum for numerous reasons. Many of the old regulars will neither visit nor post in this "chatroom". Last words from me on this topic. Heading for work throught a foot of snow and ice.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted March 17, 2007 Share #40 Posted March 17, 2007 This is definitely a very different, read unfriendly, place vs. the old Forum for numerous reasons. Many of the old regulars will neither visit nor post in this "chatroom". Last words from me on this topic. William, I can't relate to the old Forum, because I was still in school then, but contrary to your stated view I find this a very interesting, helpful and friendly place and long may it be so. I've learned a lot and even observed the 'other side of the brain' in action - re Imants who confuses the hell out of me. "Last words from me on this topic" ... is not a friendly statement from anyone. Maybe you've said that once too often to Ron? I still want to share the fine photo forum in the German section. Andy needs to get the forum sequences to be the same order and I'll cope with an on-line translator. Rolo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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