photomeme Posted September 23, 2012 Share #61 Posted September 23, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) You can't have it because the viewfinder isn't accurate enough for the camera to know precisely what's going to be in the frame, and therefore can't know where to position any heads up focussing information. Meh. A user assisted calibration step using an overlaid rendering of edges not limited to focus peaks. You know there is a four way switch button on the rear of the M? Technical problems do require engineering. I'll give you that. HUDs with live information accentuating an optical view aren't simple, but they're doable. Even if the peaks appeared only in the small space of the focusing rectangle, it would be a marvel. Frankly, EVF is simple, the engineering is in cost reduction, sigh. Perhaps that's what we get with Leica's strategy to price its premiere camera at $7000 instead of $8,000. With Live View and EVF focus peaking, Leica behaves predictably, even if one were making those predictions in 2010. It doesn't dazzle. And Video without motion compensation? Talking about this as an M with technology that will endure for many years just doesn't add up, if you're looking at these features. The sensor is another matter. We have specs, but its photographic results are quite unknown. I'm concerned about the history of CMOS misfires industrywide. Leica had its third major opportunity to announce plans to make the sensor of its flagship upgradeable, and opted not to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Hi photomeme, Take a look here Future upgradeability of new Leica M's EVF. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wattsy Posted September 23, 2012 Share #62 Posted September 23, 2012 I think Leica will try to keep the current rangefinder system alive as long as possible but I don't see how Leica can avoid being drawn into an overhaul of the entire system to incorporate auto focus somewhere in the future. At that point I'm not sure if such a camera will still incorporate a rangefinder. I suspect you are probably right. Leica will maintain a certain amount of M mount compatibility for as long as possible. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see the 6-bit system retired reasonably soon and replaced (or supplemented) by some kind of direct electronic linkage and, if it's possible, AF incorporated into the same mount (obviously using different lenses). I also think the traditional optical RF will eventually be entirely replaced by some kind of EVF that is cheaper and has wider (dare I say 'dumbed-down') market appeal. The latter may happen sooner than some of us would think. By then, of course, the M camera will pretty much have ceased to exist in all but name (and some backward compatibility with the current MF lenses). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 23, 2012 Share #63 Posted September 23, 2012 Meh. A user assisted calibration step using an overlaid rendering of edges not limited to focus peaks But the edges change according to focussing distance - both in terms of their overall size, and their position in the viewfinder due to parallax. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 23, 2012 Share #64 Posted September 23, 2012 But the edges change according to focussing distance - both in terms of their overall size, and their position in the viewfinder due to parallax. And, probably change with your eye position in the eyepiece. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted September 23, 2012 Share #65 Posted September 23, 2012 Don' worry, as it looks now, you'll starve. :If not - enjoy. Well just remember that I don't have to right about your eventually buying an M to win the bet. If you buy ANY camera other than an EVIL in the next decade (per your quote), you lose. I wonder if anyone on the forum believes that one. I'll bookmark this thread just so we can have fun (again) down the road. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photomeme Posted September 23, 2012 Share #66 Posted September 23, 2012 But the edges change according to focussing distance - both in terms of their overall size, and their position in the viewfinder due to parallax. You're giving the HUD system info on the general focusing distance you're interested in as you adjust the focus dial. Remember peaking on top of rangefinder focusing is ultimately a fine tuning incremental feature. And there are alternative optical configurations that allow the system to 'see' the view through the optical as well as TTL. Come on, folks, this is a 2013 release. Raise your expectations! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photomeme Posted September 23, 2012 Share #67 Posted September 23, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) And, probably change with your eye position in the eyepiece. Calibration issue already asked and answered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 23, 2012 Share #68 Posted September 23, 2012 There seems to be no shortage of people with brilliant ideas of how to build better cameras. Only for some reason they prefer to hang around in online fora, rather than working with camera vendors to implement their ideas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted September 23, 2012 Share #69 Posted September 23, 2012 Meh. A user assisted calibration step using an overlaid rendering of edges not limited to focus peaks. You know there is a four way switch button on the rear of the M? The problem in effect is to superimpose part of the "live view" image from the sensor on the scene shown by optical finder. Not the entire image as shown on the LCD, just the sharp edges detected by the focus peaking algorithms. The system would have to handle the effects of parallax, and the changes of scale of the image on the sensor relative to the image in the optical finder. At one level, that means handling nominal focal lengths from 16 or 21 mm to 90 or 135mm; at another, it means handling the change in each lens's focal length between infinity and its closest focus distance. I'm not going to claim it's not "doable". But you'll have to be a bit more specific in how these things would be handled if you want people to believe it can be engineered into a M-size camera in 2013. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40mm f/2 Posted September 23, 2012 Share #70 Posted September 23, 2012 I consider that attachable EVF a problem for ergonomic reasons. Holding a M (or any SLR) one forms a stable 3 point system (head, left and right hand) to support the camera in contrast to 2 for only using a rear screen like any point and shoot, iphone etc. With that attached EVF the 3rd support point is not there anymore as the camera has now some distance to the scull (only contact point is the eye - not a good support point). That reasoning made me choose the NEX-7 over the NEX-5 (and the lack of flash attachment when the EVF is used). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 24, 2012 Share #71 Posted September 24, 2012 I consider that attachable EVF a problem for ergonomic reasons. Holding a M (or any SLR) one forms a stable 3 point system (head, left and right hand) to support the camera in contrast to 2 for only using a rear screen like any point and shoot, iphone etc. With that attached EVF the 3rd support point is not there anymore as the camera has now some distance to the scull (only contact point is the eye - not a good support point). That reasoning made me choose the NEX-7 over the NEX-5 (and the lack of flash attachment when the EVF is used). The attachable EVF is in roughly the same position relative to the camera body as the viewfinder of an SLR. Frankly I don’t see the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm Posted September 24, 2012 Share #72 Posted September 24, 2012 Building an optical viewfinder with focus peaking is trivial. You just need to increase the size of the focusing patch to cover the whole frame... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicasince1939 Posted September 24, 2012 Share #73 Posted September 24, 2012 How well does the EVF2 work with stopped down lenses? I have ordered an M with EVF on faith, but still have seen nothing on this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 24, 2012 Share #74 Posted September 24, 2012 Within reason, very well. The gain increases if you stop down to brighten the image in the EVF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted September 24, 2012 Share #75 Posted September 24, 2012 How well does the EVF2 work with stopped down lenses? I have ordered an M with EVF on faith, but still have seen nothing on this. The EVF2 can be currently evaluated on a Leica X2. This past weekend I was able to do that. Firstly, the EVF-2 box says "Made in China", and comments overheard about it's source are: the same factory makes the Olympus VF-2. Comparing the two finders side by side, they were identical except for their outer plastic housing shape. Identical size, just slightly different angles on the plastic. Still, I liked the Leica better, despite the non Solms origin (and it's similarity to the Olympus) it exuded Leica-ness . On the X2 there was smearing when moving the finder in a fast jerking motion, but when used normally or in a smooth pan the smearing was minimal. Comparing the smearing to the Olympus OM-D, there was no comparison, the Olympus @ 120 Hz has no blur with any motion. I was inside a poorly lit store and focusing was easy, although the finder could have been brighter to my slightly aging eyes, so maybe younger eyes would find it better. Overall I found the finder to be very usable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicasince1939 Posted September 24, 2012 Share #76 Posted September 24, 2012 I have looked through the EVF2 on an X-2. I am not overly impressed. I expect that it will be helpful on the M. If I can fit it with an eye cup, it will be better, certainly better than the bright line frames in the M9 rangefinder where scattered light blinds me. I guess that I want a viewfinder like the S that I don't have and the Leicaflex that I still have. [The Leicaflex, 1965, had a brilliant viewfinder and was a major improvement over my IIIG, bought 1939 in high school with paper route savings.] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 24, 2012 Share #77 Posted September 24, 2012 Well, if truth be told, I think I might be using an NEX 7 for my long R lenses by that time... And not need the Leica. So here is someone else missing Washington What a nice guy! Hope he'll post soon again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted September 25, 2012 Share #78 Posted September 25, 2012 So here is someone else missing Washington What a nice guy! Hope he'll post soon again. +1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted September 25, 2012 Share #79 Posted September 25, 2012 Olympus holds the US Design Patent for the 'Leica M' EVF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted September 27, 2012 Share #80 Posted September 27, 2012 I've read that an improved Olympus EVF is indeed expected by the end of the year. On the 4/3 Rumor site this quote is attributed to Toshiyuki Terada, Olympus Product Planning “we will have new EVFs that should satisfy even the most critical photographers". More background information, nothing confirmed and timescale uncertain, just conjecture at the moment. Epson Ultimicron EVFs At Photokina 2012 ".......The EVF is used in the Olympus OM-D E-M5, with an 0.47 inch 1.44 million dot (SVGA) EVF, although it could be in other products that have not yet been announced, or alternatively some manufacturers do not wish to divulge who is the manufacturer of components in their cameras........" ".......The latest 0.48 inch EVF features an XGA resolution, and 2.359 million dots........" Of course whether any such EVF would be taken up by Leica is unknown. After all, the M plus the currently proposed EVF is not even available yet. It's said that Olympus' external EVF for their PEN cameras works on the X2 though (same connector), so if that is also the case with the M (not known) perhaps any new variant might also be compatible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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