innerimager Posted August 30, 2012 Share #1 Posted August 30, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am curious what the veteran film, especially B&W, shooters here think about the latest digital M. While not a veteran, I'll start with my first thought which is that one thing I enjoy about shooting B&W film is the highlight exposure latitude. The MM seems like slide film, with a hard cut off and no room before losing highlights. On the other hand it is supposed to have good shadow recovery and low noise which can compensate. But certainly this is just a minor issue and I look forward to hearing your thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 30, 2012 Posted August 30, 2012 Hi innerimager, Take a look here M Monochrome?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest Ming Rider Posted August 30, 2012 Share #2 Posted August 30, 2012 Exposure Latitude and Shadow Recovery are not terms I would normally associate with (any) digital camera. Headroom? Yes, but limited to a clearly defined line. Step over that line and the results are yack. Digital clipping is of no value and I liken it to a Surgeon cutting off Gangrenous Flesh. You either get it right or you don't, and there in a nutshell is my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted August 30, 2012 Share #3 Posted August 30, 2012 Tihi, this is going to be an interesting thread I completely agree that getting the exposure right is fundamental, but also when using film. I find that certain films scan very very badly (Portra 40 and Ektar come to mind) when not exposed properly. True one can push things about in Photoshop but not to the extent that they look natural. There's a real pop to the image when the exposure is right. I have never handled an MM but from the photos I've seen here and elsewhere it seems that also it will not be able to bend the laws of photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted August 30, 2012 Share #4 Posted August 30, 2012 Ask me tomorrow. I have an Elmarit-M 90 (best length for attacking my receptionists), an SD card and a viewfinder correction lens sitting on my desk waiting for the FedEx man to arrive with a package. I just hope he isn't like this FedEx man. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ming Rider Posted August 30, 2012 Share #5 Posted August 30, 2012 Ask me tomorrow. I have an Elmarit-M 90 (best length for attacking my receptionists), an SD card and a viewfinder correction lens sitting on my desk waiting for the FedEx man to arrive with a package. I just hope he isn't like this FedEx man. Chris If your local FedEx is anything like mine in Kendal, your Guaranteed Next Day Special Delivery, will be with you next Thursday, possibly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted August 30, 2012 Share #6 Posted August 30, 2012 The MM has extraordinary local contrast in the shadows that can brought out using PS curves, for example. Film can yield similar outcomes in the wet darkroom by using print masks, but only advanced fine-art experts do that, and never, ever for 35mm. Scanning 35mm does not bring out the same in film, either. At least for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted August 30, 2012 Share #7 Posted August 30, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) If your local FedEx is anything like mine in Kendal, your Guaranteed Next Day Special Delivery, will be with you next Thursday, possibly. To quote the sainted Hitchens "I hate you already!" Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ming Rider Posted August 30, 2012 Share #8 Posted August 30, 2012 To quote the sainted Hitchens "I hate you already!" Chris Please find it within yourself to forgive me. FedEx and I go way back, but the most memorable of our many encounters involved replacement Drum Skins. I had ordered these for a gig at the Manchester Evening News Arena, UK. The band was The Corel and they were playing there on the Saturday. I'd ordered the new Skins (strangely enough from a shop in Manchester) on the Wednesday, but not wanting to rely on the logistics of a music shop, I had them delivered to my 'pad' in the Lake District (the band had recently been writing their new album there) and had planned to take them to the M.E.N. early Saturday morning during setup. I should have known better. I waited at my house from 7am - 7pm and both days the online tracking said, "Delivery attempted. Card left." Neither of these were true. Then I was told the skins were at the depot but they were shut until Monday. To cut a long story short, after several lengthy and VERY direct phone calls, the Managing Director of FedEx UK himself drove up from London on the Saturday to open the depot, fired two employees in front of my very eyes that he'd ordered to be there (as he had no idea this had been going on for so many years) and I got my skins and drove them to the gig. They were fitted and tuned whilst the support band 'The Pigeon Detectives' were playing. So now, whenever I order anything, even pencils, if the company says they use FedEx, I go elsewhere. Don't let this worry you though, I'm sure you'll be quietly fondling your new baby tomorrow. You lucky swine. Enjoy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted August 30, 2012 Share #9 Posted August 30, 2012 Please find it within yourself to forgive me. FedEx and I go way back... Just never ask me, please, about FedEx and my Flextight scanner. I might stroke out. Otherwise, you are forgiven, and I will do my best to emulate a lucky swine. Chris Snort, grunt or whatever it takes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ming Rider Posted August 30, 2012 Share #10 Posted August 30, 2012 Just never ask me, please, about FedEx and my Flextight scanner. I might stroke out.[/size] FedEx and a Flextight scanner, what's that about then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nando Posted August 30, 2012 Share #11 Posted August 30, 2012 Personally, I'm not interested in the MM. It has less to do with the aesthetics of digital and more with the longevity and resale value of the camera and the long-term costs of maintaining a digital archive vs. a film archive. I'm perfectly happy with film and just don't see why I would ever need or want an MM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted August 30, 2012 Share #12 Posted August 30, 2012 FedEx and a Flextight scanner, what's that about then? Nope. I refuse to have a stroke until after I have sampled the delights of an M Monochrom. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted September 1, 2012 Share #13 Posted September 1, 2012 Now I can have that stroke (but I'd rather not just yet): MM and Elmarit 90 MM and Summilux 75 Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 1, 2012 Share #14 Posted September 1, 2012 Exposure Latitude and Shadow Recovery are not terms I would normally associate with (any) digital camera My experience of the M8 is that shadow recovery is excellent. Better than I could achieve with film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
}{B Posted September 1, 2012 Share #15 Posted September 1, 2012 I've read a review that was of the opinion that JPEGs showed greater resolution than RAW files. They claimed that RAW converters were degrading the Monochromes ability to render detail so that RAW files from the standard M9 were very nearly a match for those from the Monochrome. Unfortunately I've forgotten which site this was on or I would post a link. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted September 1, 2012 Share #16 Posted September 1, 2012 All digital cameras have highlight issues. Keep exposure controlled with histogram. That is what it is there for. Given time and a tripod, you can also do HDR, multiple exposures and blend in computer. And you don`t need to make it look like a cartoon either. Done properly, it will look normal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplomley Posted September 3, 2012 Share #17 Posted September 3, 2012 Fine examples Chris. I'm about to pull the trigger on one as soon as Jean can get it. I assume the RF calibration was spot-on out of the box? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted September 3, 2012 Share #18 Posted September 3, 2012 Yes, it seems to be exactly right on all my lenses. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don'tknowmuch Posted September 4, 2012 Share #19 Posted September 4, 2012 I've just seen a review of the Monochorome and one of the good things they had to say about it was that it, at last, saved "all that expense of shooting with film!" If I had the time I might try to work out how much film one would have to not use before breaking even. But maybe this just shows my ignorance of how much it does cost some people... Personally unmmoved by digital cameras, though years ago I did send send my idea to various manufacturers about providing a B&W option on digital colour cameras with better dynamic range than is currently available. I wondered if it was possible to set the sensitivity of each of the three colour data points, that are normally amalgamated to become one colour pixel, by varying the amplication of the voltage for each of the three colour areas on the sensor. After suitable in-camera processing of data to see what was in the image (discarding anything blown and integrating the information from the three colour points into one B&W luminance per pixel), allowing a greater dynamic range for B&W use. No one was interested, no doubt because its a barmy idea. Jim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted September 4, 2012 Share #20 Posted September 4, 2012 how much film one would have to not use before breaking even. Assuming a BW roll costs 4€ (counting high, ignoring cost savings of bulk loading) and that developing a roll in a shop costs 5€, which it does where I live (thus ignoring cost savings by developing oneself), that gives 9€ per roll. The MM's price of 6800€ is the equivalent of 755 rolls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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