pop Posted August 25, 2012 Share #21 Posted August 25, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks, tri and Michael. Maybe threads will be closed in future, as soon as more than half of the posts come from mods? That's very perceptive of you. For the really annoying threads the powers that be are experimenting with a new rule of first promoting every second participant to the lofty status of moderator and then closing the thread on account of the large number of participating moderators. Simple as that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 Hi pop, Take a look here Show Global Time?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest Posted August 25, 2012 Share #22 Posted August 25, 2012 :D btw: don't emoticons look a bit like clocks? not the right question for a refined Swiss Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted August 25, 2012 Share #23 Posted August 25, 2012 btw: don't emoticons look a bit like clocks? not the right question for a refined Swiss Should I go and look for a refined Swiss? My clocks do not look like emoticons at all, perhaps unless it's 8:20. That's a Swiss idiom: the twenty past eight face (trap?) which stands for something like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 25, 2012 Share #24 Posted August 25, 2012 Hello Everybody, I have read parts or all of various references placed here in terms of the questions that have been asked & find the ammount & complexity of the material too large & too much for me to deal w/. So I thought I would summarize part it for those who might feel the same way: Which are the 4 days of the year when 12 noon is more or less 12 noon? 16 April, 14 June, 1 September & 25 December Why: Because those are the only 4 days during the year when the Sun is directly overhead @ 12 noon LOCAL time. This is not the same as 12 noon within a given Time Zone. The other days of the year the Sun is directly overhead as much as 16 minutes after 12 noon LOCAL time, 23 November, or is directly overhead as much as 14 minutes before 12 noon LOCAL time, 11 February. Much of the World today uses Zonal Time based on 0 Degrees Longitude being a true North to South line drawn on a map of the World thru an Observatory in Greenwich, England. Every suceeding 15 Degrees of Longitude equals 1 hour of time change. Except in some places. Why 12 or 24 hour days made up of hours of 60 minutes further divided into 60 seconds when a 10 hour day made up of 100 minutes of 100 seconds was good enough for some of the people who ran the French Revolution? Because back in the old days most repetative mathematical constructs were made up of smaller numbers & there were no coviniently available calculators & people's educational directions were somewhat different than today. To put it another way: Working w/ small groups of small #'s: Base 12 calculations are easier than base 10. That's why most European counting systems, monetary, measuring & so forth were mostly base 12 until the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. Base 12 is divisible by 1, 2, 3(an easier # to deal w/ than many people think), 4, 6. Base 24 is divisable by 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12. Base 10 is divisible by 1 & 5. 5 is a lot harder than 3 to do. It is almost as hard as 7. btw: 360 is divisible by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 8, 9, 10, 12, 18. Adding 5 & 10 to an expanded base 12 greatly increases the ability of people to make more precise sophisticated calculations w/o modern computing devices. No dummies back there in the Old Days. I anwered why 12 midnight in the "middle" of the night in a Post above: Too much potential bickering @ the point where you change today into tomorrow. Someone might think it was still yesterday or wonder if now is actually tomorrow if they were up & around up & had already had breakfast. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzo Posted August 26, 2012 Share #25 Posted August 26, 2012 Dear Mr.Geschlecht, When you catch me with that blank expression, that means I haven't understood a word of what you're saying. Please, do not let it bother you and continue as though nothing has happened. ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted August 26, 2012 Share #26 Posted August 26, 2012 Michael, seems this thread has become pretty popular as it is, so let's do another one on watches and time later on! The 24 hour clock is totally artificial, of course -- we could just as well divide the day into shorter or longer units. (As the ancient Romans did, for example. Or we could name them "forenoon watch", "dog watch", and so on!) The sun is never directly above you at noon unless you are at the equator. And then, does it appears to move left to right or right to left? Actually, it does both! The International Date Line is similarly artificial, and actually ducks and dives around groups of islands. Samoa, for instance, last year decided to jump over the date line so lost a whole day but the islands are now on the same day and date as New Zealand. NZ beat the US by almost a day to see the new millennium -- and we continue to be ahead of anywhere in the world for that matter -- but of course the further east you go the sooner you see the sun. All artificial. You might be interested in reading Longitude, Dava Sobell's fascinating tale about C18 English clock-maker John Harrison: Amazon.com: Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time (9780140258790): Dava Sobel: Books Here are some more intriguing 24 hour watches: Glycine's 24-hour Airman has a 24 hour hour hand but a 12 hour minute hand. ::: Glycine Watch ::: Bienne 1914 ::: Swiss Made ::: Lange und Söhne have some interesting watches, too. These watches do take some study to read. LANGE 1 TIME ZONE: the watch – A. Lange & Söhne Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted August 26, 2012 Share #27 Posted August 26, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) The 24 hour clock is totally artificial, of course As is the right turning clock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted August 26, 2012 Share #28 Posted August 26, 2012 Arabic is read right to left but not sure about the watches (it wouldn't be "anti-clockwise" to them). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted August 26, 2012 Share #29 Posted August 26, 2012 Arabic is read right to left but not sure about the watches (it wouldn't be "anti-clockwise" to them). People from Arabic countries (among others, of course) love to buy Swiss watches which are not usually available in counter-clockwise variants. If there are any digits, they are either roman or arabic numerals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzo Posted August 26, 2012 Share #30 Posted August 26, 2012 Beiträge in dieser fetten blauen Schrift schreibe ich als Moderator. -- I use this bold blue typeface when I write in my function as moderator. Hello Sir. ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted August 26, 2012 Share #31 Posted August 26, 2012 People from Arabic countries (among others, of course) love to buy Swiss watches which are not usually available in counter-clockwise variants. If there are any digits, they are either roman or arabic numerals. What we often call "Arabic" numerals are Hindu-Arabic or Indo-Arabic numerals, and quite different from "eastern Arabic" numerals like those shown here. The hands on this watch still go clockwise, though. http://www.britishmuseumshoponline.org/invt/cmcj24010/?source=cj Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted August 26, 2012 Share #32 Posted August 26, 2012 ..............The hands on this watch still go clockwise, though. Arabic numeral men's watch - British Museum shop online Thinking about the alternative, that is, hands on a clock turning anti- or counter- clockwise is in itself a metaphysically semantic (or vice-versa) exercise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 26, 2012 Share #33 Posted August 26, 2012 Hello Ivan, I'm sorry my writing was not that clear. If you would like, I would be glad to try to clarify or further explain. Which ever or both if you would prefer. Did you know that Maltese Clocks, probably everyday things to you, are World famous? That is: The 1's that come from Siggiewi that you have to wind the weights of twice a Day. Many of them tell the time w/ 1 hand. btw: I'm Michael. No need to be so formal. Unless that is your preference. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 26, 2012 Share #34 Posted August 26, 2012 For the reasons we have previously discussed, your writing is often not clear, Michael. Your use of abbreviations and symbols make your writing difficult to read. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzo Posted August 27, 2012 Share #35 Posted August 27, 2012 ... Did you know that Maltese Clocks, probably everyday things to you, are World famous? That is: The 1's that come from Siggiewi that you have to wind the weights of twice a Day. Many of them tell the time w/ 1 hand. ... Hello Michael, To be honest, I did not know that the clocks are world famous even though I know that they are collectors' pieces locally and are very hard to come by and can fetch good money. Last prices I knew of, were about €10,000, but that's quite a few years back and wouldn't be surprised if they are now fetching a good deal more. Well made new ones sell for approx €4000. Lovely clocks IMO, and blend in beautifully if you have the appropriate type of house and furnishings. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 28, 2012 Share #36 Posted August 28, 2012 Hello Andy, I'm sorry if my writing seems somewhat unclear to some people @ some times but what I am doing is trying to re-enter the writing World after becoming seriously ill in 1993 & not beginning to get better until 2007. In 2007 as I began to get better I found a whole World of computers had developed & w/ it had come a real flourishing of the English language. As I began writing & reading w/ my limited time on the computer, self taught, I found there had been many changes in the way people wrote as well as what they wrote. Sort of like Rip Van Winkle, a person who used to live not too far North of where I am writing this from, trying to find his new place in the World. Just like there is an explosion of knowledge comparable to what happened in the Industrial Revolution: This is the beginning of a large scale reformulation of the English Language as it more & more becomes a language shared by & developed by more more-varied people w/ backgrounds in many diverse cultures & languages. English, w/ its propensity toward inclusion & adaptation, is doing well. Writing English is interesting. From the late 19th to the mid 20th Century written forms of many languages, ie: German, Chinese, Hungarian, were rationalized or had attempts at rationalization made in terms of having their written forms (the symbols that approximate the sounds) catch up w/ & better approximate their spoken forms. Some languages like French & English did not do that much. G.B. Shaw, for example, left his estate to be used to rationalize the written English language to restructure it in a more rational way. Things like "Tu" & "Too" as well as "Lead" & "Led". As well as "Lead" & "Lead". There are others. What I have been doing is experimenting w/ my writing. Trying, among other things, to rationalize spelling. Sometimes in an unorthodox manner. Somethings being more sucessful than others. I am surprised by your Post. I've never seen you say to a person from another culture or another 1st language that their syntax or allusion was wrong. Rationalization of phonetic symbols (English uses a phonetic, not pictographic, Alphabet) is just another form of evoloution of a language. Don't forget: English was last rationalized in terms of its symbols for sounds in the mid 19th Century by loosely co-ordinated groups of educators, newspaper editors, etc. These groups & their effect varied from Country to Country. Prior to that time period there was no standardized spelling. Before that, in the Old Days, people would sometimes spell the same word differently @ different times. Altho some people still do that today: Dear B, Have a nice trip. Okay? Love, Jay OR: Dear Bea, Have a nice trip. OK? Love, J So, anyhow, I'm just trying to do my part in terms of rationalizing written English Characters. Not just to kill less soybeans & less trees & mine less oil but also to help English reformulate itself in order that it can better absorb, digest & resynthesize the enormous pile of potential new data & members on their way thru the 21st Century. The spoken language is the real language. The written language is an approximation of that living spoken language. This written reflection can sometimes benefit from some changing to keep pace w/ the changes in what is spoken. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 28, 2012 Share #37 Posted August 28, 2012 Writing using symbols and abbreviations such as w/ is not the way to clear communication nor is it inclusive to "new people" to English. It takes more effort to type and it takes much more effort to read, whether you have been reading English for 45 years or 45 days. I won't mention it again as you are obviously happy with this one man mission. Why not get rid of the vowels too? English can be read quite easily without vowels, provided you know what the words are supposed to be with them. Punctuation and capitalisation are also irrelevant. Get did of them too. S I wnt mntn t agn a u r bvsly hppy w tha 1 mn mssn y nt gt rd f vwls 2 englsh cn b rd qt sly w o vwls prvdd u knw wt t wrds r sppsd 2 b w thm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 28, 2012 Share #38 Posted August 28, 2012 Hello David, Sorry for the delay in my reply. The base 12 systems were not arbirary but were used for the reasons I said above. When people were working w/ unsophisticated mathematics & relatively small ammounts base 12 works better. Even if you have 10 fingers & 10 toes & not 12 fingers & 12 toes. Interestingly: From Rome to Japan many original time telling devices showed 12 hours of Sunlight & 12 hours of Dark. People would adjust the spacing between the indicators on a regular basis so that as the days got longer & shorter there were still 12 hours of each. This was still the case in some parts of Europe for a while after the Fall of Rome. Many years ago I repaired a Japanese rack clock which was powered by someone pushing the clockworks up a rack each day. As the clockworks descended on the rack it passed moveable indicators which could be adjusted seasonally to give you 12 hours of day & 12 hours of nite. I realigned the indicators to reflect equal hours so the people using it could use it equivalently w/ any standard clock. Of course, I did it in a reversable manner. Another note: I should have been clearer: What I meant to say was: 12 noon only happens @ the time the Sun is @ its highest point overhead in the sky on 4 days of the year. The actual International Dateline is 180 degrees East or West of Greenwich. Some Countries have decided to change the time they observe it. No different than only having 1 Time Zone in China. Greenland using the 5 Time Zones it does instead of the 5 Time Zones it is in & Nepal having its Midnite 6 hours & 15 minutes after Christ Church. John Harrison & his brother James Harrison made a lot of contributions still significant today. The two of them together, along w/ George Graham, pretty much created the modern highly accurate mechanical clock. George Harrison had a more musical ear. It's interesting to note that the Graham dead beat regulator & compensating mercury pendulum or, alternately James Harrison's gridiron pendulum, was the the unchallenged standard of accuracy from the early 18th Century to prettty much today. Many observatories & scientific laboratories used these clocks well into the 20th Century. Mechanical marine chronometers w/ different escapements than John Harrison's #'s 4 & 5 were the standard thru WW2. Thanx for the watches. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 28, 2012 Share #39 Posted August 28, 2012 Hello Andy, Thank you. That is really nice. I don't think I could ever do that but it is really nice to read. You should do it more often. Empiricism is I way to expand your horizons. It is a challenge. That is very well done. Sort of like when you read words like "Oz" & "bling". btw: Do you know what "bling" means? Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 28, 2012 Share #40 Posted August 28, 2012 Hello Everybody, Almost forgot: Many people think the reason the hands on a clock or watch travels clockwise is: The 1st European clocks were built w/ faces which were modeled after Sundials's faces. The gnomon of a Sundial creates a shadow which proceeds clockwise. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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