PMA overview

[Guest guy_mancuso]

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Hi everyone I am back from PMA and it went very well. I guess the best way to give my impressions is to just start from the beginning and much easier for me to remember so bare with me on this. It started as a 7 am flight to LV to attend a 8 am Seminar for Leica dealers on Phase One which gave some hand leica dealers a chance to learn how to use C1 for there customers and themselves. I was invited by Leica to attend this seminar to see what they teach and such. Firstly I have never used the LE version so for that it was interesting to see what it can and cannot do. Honestly no big surprise for me but I am a experienced C1 user so nothing I really learned on LE there is some nice features to it and also they went over the Pro version which I have been using for about 6 years. Okay the fun stuff they did give us a preview of Version 4.0 and that was very exciting. Basically it looks like a combo of Aperture and LR but it is a open standard so there is no cataloging feature built in but developers can use plug ins like PS , so any developer can make a nice cataloging system for it plus any other plug ins that can be made, actually great idea from Phase so companies like IView can work directly within the program. Now not all the tools were active so I could not see all the functions but I think everything we expect will be on it. The Le version will come out first in the spring followed by the pro version. There are free updates and special packaging for M8 users and so on but I will let phase announce that stuff when they release but certainly I am looking forward to it.

I did ask about new profiles and they ARE currently being made before the release for M8 users and the IR filters. Yahoo

 

BTW I am really tired had 3 hours sleep and flew home at 6 am to shoot a golf tourney at 8 am and been in the hot sun for 8 hours so I am wiped out, pardon the spelling.

 

Next stop PMA well I will be honest pretty much never left the leica booth on Friday and was a little upset that Apple , Adobe and Hassy were not at the show. But I did get that Aperture will support the M8 and they have had a leica since January so it's in Apples court. Well moving on here I finally got to meet all my Lexica friends Stefan Daniels head of the M division, Christian Erhardt manager of US marketing and also the owner of Leica was there Doctor Kaufman and all the R division and C lux, V lux, Digilux and such folks were there also. Small booth, small company but standing there looking at all the glass I really had to button my wallet pants pocket, this IS a dangerous place to stand. LOL

 

Also of special interest was my sales rep Linda Leslie Butler and Jim Butler who I have become great friends with and we do talk all the time so obviously I was with them on every event we did. I did get the chance to meet our own Andy Piper and he and I had a very nice chat with Stefan Daniels on various lenses that we would like to see and chatted about some issues that we are having with the failures and so on. But we did talk about a 15mm 3.5 that would be a good fit for Leica and a 24 f2 and of course folks want a 28 1.4 so some of the idea's about lenses did peak Stefan’s interest. Also I went over in detail about a new grip design and he did like that idea very much and I showed him my setup that I have and he did see were my issues are and what we maybe could do. Also I did tell Stefan about our laundry list and was very interested in what the issues are and what lexica can do to fix them. Okay more on that Later. I left for awhile and walked around and did come up with a couple things that look pretty interesting for M8 shooters and I will get that info going in another thread about Pc hot shoes and wireless remotes and such. I also think they should change the name of the show to PMA bags, okay I thought I had an issue with bags seems like everyone else does too. There were thousands of bags. LOL

Later in the day I meet with Christian Erhardt and we had a very nice private conversation on the R system and it's future and such, plus communications with end users and Leica's role in the market and some things that they want to do with regards to passing info and such. First a couple things to get out of the way Leica really does care about us the end user and they realize there communications could be better but again there not going to announce anything until it is ready to be released which is perfectly the norm in the industry, there are just too many issues to say next June 1 07 we will release this product. We all know that could never happen given supplies, vendors and such. Now on the R system Christian could not say much but just don't sell my R glass there is a future and the what, where, when, how 's and all that just could not be answered even with my tight relationship with leica they could not tell me anything that I did not already suspect. They just are not ready to answer questions on it yet. DMR firmware they are still working with Imacon on it and it is still being kicked around for a release but again there is no firm dates because they don't know themselves and frankly they just don't want to promise and not be able to deliver. This I am sure is a sore subject for them and they want us to have it as much as we want it but they also want to make sure it is right and I suspect that it went back to the drawing board to make sure it was right. Christian did say it takes a lot of time to do this and it is still in Imacons hands. On the subject of communications and such they are working on several plans that will help the end user and I will just let them talk about that when they have stuff in place, rather not speculate on this area. But it is improving, as you will see here in a minute.

 

Saturday I walked around the show and picked up and tired every camera on the market even the Canon 1dMKIII. I have to say after shooting the DMR and M8 I simply was NOT impressed with anything out there. They all felt either like a toy or picking up a car. The Canon is lighter than the previous model, well excuse me Mr.. Canon but I did a pry bar to get it off the counter, what a brick. My memory must be short the lenses are rolling barrels compared to the M and R glass. LOL Okay got my dig in there but the MKII was about the only one interesting and maybe only because of live view and what you could do with Leica R lenses. Other than that it is a rocket machine gun type shooting. I could NOT shoot one frame in the High mode. Hit the shutter and three images popped off, hell that is too much editing for me. LOL

 

Saturday evening leica invited me to dinner with Christian, Stephan, Linda and Jim went to a very nice Italian restaurant and we openly discussed the laundry list and went line by line and talked about what the issue were and what can be done and as we talked about them. I realized that there is no way for me to get everything said on paper. So Stephan is going to go over the questions line by line and reply to each of them and send them back to me so I can post them right here on the forum. This way I don't mess up what he has to say and you get accurate responses from leica on the issues at hand. I could talk about some of them but I would rather wait to get Stefan’s replies this week and post them. So I will send the laundry list electronically to him in the next day or two and he can directly answer the tough questions. I noticed Andy did post some stuff on his threads, which I am glad he got some info out that I may have missed. So let's look forward to some of that but they are working on this stuff very hard to get remedies for but firmware is tough to do.

 

Personal note. Obviously I enjoyed myself with the leica folks very much and they treated me very well and we do have a nice relationship between us and they also love there customers and are really trying to solve the issue and come to market with new product and grow the company.

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[Guest guy_mancuso]

Also just wanted to add I have some catching up too do here on the forum and some more questions and issues came up so i will try and capture that on Monday so i can get all that info to Leica . Plus want to talk more on the stuff at he show and all that but just wanted to get this out tonight before i pass out. I need some sleep but will answer as much as i can tomorrow.

[Riley]

maybe you are here Guy ?

 

Leica: PMA 2007 Show Report: Digital Photography Review

[chris_tribble]

Thanks for representing and sharing. Sleep well!

[macusque]

Thanks for the report Guy, any news on the future of the R-line (new DMR, R-10, different format, etc.) ?

 

Edit: oops, sorry, I missed the part you talked about the DMR... forget my question

[farnz]

Thanks for sharing what you discovered with us, Guy.

 

Also very heartening to hear that the Leica people are clearly still committed to their customers, resolving known problems, developing new Rs and taking on board the issues and suggestions from this forum.

 

Pete.

[kidigital]

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Thanks for the update and for being a great Leica advocate Guy! You must've worked hard on your homework (your report), as you kept your spelling mistakes to a minimum.

 

Kurt

[bono0272]

Guy,

 

Thanks for bringing back some information on the R systems, although these are not breaking ground news. Longing to see the DMR new firmware and the new R digital.

[rosuna]

Thank you Guy.

 

Do you think Leica's representatives are optimist? Is the company going well? How about finantial situation at this moment? What type of reestructuring is being made at Leica? Was Mr. Lee in Las Vegas? Why the purchase of Sinar failed? What was the reason for this purchase? Does Leica has alternative plans for developing an electronic/software division in house? New partnerships?

[nryn]

Guy, as always your generosity with your time and information is very appreciated. Thanks too for setting up the communication with Stephan. I hope the forum community as well as Leica will take the opportunity for dialogue rather than finger pointing.

 

Interesting that Apple has had an M8 for a while. There has been much speculation about M8 support in Aperture...I hope it comes sooner than later, even if it does need an update after 1.10 is out.

 

Cheers.

[mitchell]

Guy,

 

Thanks for your usual generosity. When are you going to quit your day job? I believe you do some kind of photography when you're not reporting, and teaching about Leica. !:^)

 

About Phase One, how is the new version like LR, and Aperture if it doesn't do cataloguing? Will maybe the Pro version do cataloguing?

 

Thanks,

 

MItchell

[hankg]

Phase One news is very exciting. An open standards based environment for the M8 is the way to go. Microsoft, Apple and Adobe are all building closed proprietary systems which are not amenable to customization. If your workflow, taste in image profiles and equipment choices fit their target audiences great, if not tough luck. To bad iView was purchased by Microsoft. Hopefully there will be an equally effective DAM solution geared to photographers (tracking liscensing, attaching releases, restrictions, keywording, etc.) that will plug in to C1.

 

It would be nice if you could create custom ICC profiles in C1 from RAW Gretag color checker shots. Just fire off a shot of a mini color checker in the light you have been shooting in and get a profile tailored to the shoot. Admittedlty, more attractive for studio work especially product/tabletop work but still would be very useful for any sort of photography.

[xrogers]

Thanks, Guy!

 

--clyde

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Thank you Guy.

 

Do you think Leica's representatives are optimist? Is the company going well? How about finantial situation at this moment? What type of reestructuring is being made at Leica? Was Mr. Lee in Las Vegas? Why the purchase of Sinar failed? What was the reason for this purchase? Does Leica has alternative plans for developing an electronic/software division in house? New partnerships?

 

 

I think Leica folks are optimist and generally feel real well about there future. lens orders are very backed up and the M8 has created such a demand on them that there future looks very good financially. So yes I think they are very pleased about the future and expanding thelensline and product lines is something they will do. The WATE is a beauty and I think we will see some more lenses very soon. Mr Lee was not in Vegas but Dr Kaufman (owner)seemed to be on the floor everyday meeting and talking to people which I thought was a great commitment on his part. He is a very serious leica collector BTW and Mr Leee is a R shooter from what i hear. The business side of the sales and such with Sinar I did not get into. But leica looks like there always looking for good partners to team with, so that sied we will have to see what comes.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Phase One news is very exciting. An open standards based environment for the M8 is the way to go. Microsoft, Apple and Adobe are all building closed proprietary systems which are not amenable to customization. If your workflow, taste in image profiles and equipment choices fit their target audiences great, if not tough luck. To bad iView was purchased by Microsoft. Hopefully there will be an equally effective DAM solution geared to photographers (tracking liscensing, attaching releases, restrictions, keywording, etc.) that will plug in to C1.

 

It would be nice if you could create custom ICC profiles in C1 from RAW Gretag color checker shots. Just fire off a shot of a mini color checker in the light you have been shooting in and get a profile tailored to the shoot. Admittedlty, more attractive for studio work especially product/tabletop work but still would be very useful for any sort of photography.

 

 

Hank well said and leica did a very smart thing here and teaming up with Phase one was a very good choose. This is a very mature product ad some great minds behind this Danish company and there relationship looks very strong. The open system idea is very smart . There new interface is like Aperture and LR with sliders and file system tree and it is extremely fast in processing and workflow. This is something I am waiting for personally.

[Woody Campbell]

The C1 update has been expected for some time - I take it it won't be this month. C1's focus on getting a new version of its flagship software out the door may be one of the things that has slowed the M8 v1.10 - it's probably very hard to get C1's attention right now.

 

I've been following this closely - new versions of the MAC OS, C1 and PS all coming out at about the same time - this will require a massive effort on the user's part sometime in the late spring.

[sdai]

Thanks a lot for the headsup, Guy ... is there anything you've left out due to some no-talk-agreement? I'm not trying to let you talk but just curious if there's anything new within the immediate future.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Guy, as always your generosity with your time and information is very appreciated. Thanks too for setting up the communication with Stephan. I hope the forum community as well as Leica will take the opportunity for dialogue rather than finger pointing.

 

Interesting that Apple has had an M8 for a while. There has been much speculation about M8 support in Aperture...I hope it comes sooner than later, even if it does need an update after 1.10 is out.

 

Cheers.

 

 

This is the most important thing coming out of PMA is the dialogue that we are able to create between leica and the end user. Stefan is very eager for the the laundry list to try and explain some of the issues at hand and also some of the reasons why they did things certain ways. What is important to remember is there here to help us an not hide under a blanket even though we may not hear from them as much as some would want they are seeing and reading about our issues and working on them. When they have fixes they will tell us mostly in firmware updates but firmware is very hard to do and takes time. We may not see a fix in the very next firmware on one issue and it may take the next version. Some things like the failures is really tough because it is so random and they just can't hit a button and see it happen. So figuring out the root cause is very hard. BTW there are some new standards that are being released on the SDHC stuff and I am waiting to get more reports on the HC standard and seeing what new cards will work in the M8 .

 

I did want to touch on the R system and they will continue to build and expand that line but again there is no time frame on this, it could be a year or two before we see anything come to light. They are and will support the DMR as it is today though, so we will always have that type of support. Building new ones is just not a option they want to continue with there current partner. Iam sure this was a very tough decision on there part. The DMR in my mind is still the king of the hill and i saw nothing out there that is even close to throwing it off that hill.

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[Guest guy_mancuso]

The C1 update has been expected for some time - I take it it won't be this month. C1's focus on getting a new version of its flagship software out the door may be one of the things that has slowed the M8 v1.10 - it's probably very hard to get C1's attention right now.

 

I've been following this closely - new versions of the MAC OS, C1 and PS all coming out at about the same time - this will require a massive effort on the user's part sometime in the late spring.

 

 

BTW i can share that C1 will be identical in both the Mac and PC version except for keyboard shortcuts. This is great because you can cross platform very easily and for someone like me that may want to try and teach it makes it much easier for the end user.

 

It can't get here fast enough and i did make a point of telling them that

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Thanks a lot for the headsup, Guy ... is there anything you've left out due to some no-talk-agreement? I'm not trying to let you talk but just curious if there's anything new within the immediate future.

 

 

Even with a NDA or without one there really was nothing said, that they would not say in public and even the very little info on the R system was maybe even for them too much to say. There is hope there on that. But i have a feeling that lenes will be coming soon on the M line and that is speculation on my part buti feel good about that one. let's hope

 

Btw take a look at there new C lux camera that is one sweet little camera. I'm getting one for my shirt pocket another one that is really nice is the V-lux camera. i really liked that camera , yes compared to the M8 it may feel like a toy but it was bright to see and very clean to use and has nice range.