Michael Geschlecht Posted August 11, 2012 Share #41 Posted August 11, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello Broadside, An M4 & a 35mm lens seems like a really good choice to me. What kind of meter do you use? Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 11, 2012 Posted August 11, 2012 Hi Michael Geschlecht, Take a look here The Leica as Teacher. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Broadside Posted August 11, 2012 Share #42 Posted August 11, 2012 Hi Michael, I am indeed perfectly satisfied with my camera and lens and it is a rare occasion when I feel the desire for an alternative lens. I "see" in 35mm if you know what I mean. As for a lightmeter I have a Weston Master V. Not a battery in the whole system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
myshkine Posted August 13, 2012 Share #43 Posted August 13, 2012 Encouragement is appreciated. That is why I logged on. You have every right to approach photography in whatever way suits your style and inspiration. I certainly did not want to discourage you. I agree that this forum is a great help sometimes and it shoud be for you too. I hope that your "drill" will bring you what you are searching for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 13, 2012 Share #44 Posted August 13, 2012 Hello Broadside, A Weston Master V is a nice meter. All those intermediate shutter speeds & lens openings are quite useful. As are DIN #'s & EV's. Incident metering along w/ reflected light. Pretty much everything you might need in most situations except spot metering & extended sensitivity in dark places. Not that much to give up for all that is included in a small, reliable, ergonometric package. Not too many people write about metering these days w/ all the various meters out there. From tiny to larger than an "M". It's a shame because increased accuracy in metering is just as important as properly setting the aperture or shutter speed. As a matter of fact it is effectively the same. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiMPLiFY Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share #45 Posted August 14, 2012 I don't really know how to use a light meter. It's a shame. I have one made in Japan called BOWER. I think that you: 1. Turn it on (it uses a battery) 2. ??? It has B.C - HI - LO ??? - I am guessing that in the bright light you put it on high and in dim light you put it on low. It does not light up so I guess if it's too dark to read I'd need a little torch to shine on it. 3. Set your ISO 4. Read the EV 5. Match the EV in the window to the EV on the dial? 6. Select your setting preference on the camera from the choices on the dial. So for EV 3 at ISO 400 I'd have a choice from f/2.8 1" to f/22 60 seconds? I am not sure what the white thing on the top is. It slides to reveal a little lens. If anyone has the time or inclination to teach me or point me to an easy to understand explanation I'd appreciate it. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted August 14, 2012 Share #46 Posted August 14, 2012 1. Turn it on (it uses a battery) Most light meters use a battery indeed, so you must turn them on before taking a reading. Those which don't use a battery are the selenium meters (called after the material of their light-sensitive cell which is selenium). In these, the metering cell usually sits behind a fairly large window which looks like a piece of glass honeycomb, so selenium meters can be identified quite easily. Their big disadvantage is, they cannot meter low light. Moreover, they tend to become inaccurate with age. That's why everyone usually prefers battery-powered light meters. 2. It has B.C - HI - LO B.C. = battery check. Activate it, and either a little light will come on, or the needle will move to a certain place on the scale when the battery is still good. Don't forget to switch B.C. off after checking, or it will drain the battery quickly. I am guessing that in the bright light you put it on high and in dim light you put it on low. Exactly. It does not light up so I guess if it's too dark to read I'd need a little torch to shine on it. I'm afraid if it's too dark to read the scale then it also is too dark for the meter to give a meaningful reading in the first place. 3. Set your ISO ... which on older meters is called ASA. 4. Read the EV 5. Match the EV in the window to the EV on the dial? Yes, exactly. 6. Select your setting preference on the camera from the choices on the dial. So for EV 3 at ISO 400 I'd have a choice from f/2.8, 1" to f/22, 60 seconds? Yes, exactly. I am not sure what the white thing on the top is. It slides to reveal a little lens. Dunno ... need to see it to be sure, but I think the 'white thing', when it's dome-shaped, is the calotte used for incident-light metering. Slide it aside and reveal the little lens to do reflected-light metering. But I guess there must also be a control to switch between the two metering modes, besides moving the calotte. And oh, by the way—happy birthday, Kathleen, and have a good start into your 'Leica Year'! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiMPLiFY Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share #47 Posted August 15, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dunno ... need to see it to be sure, but I think the 'white thing', when it's dome-shaped, is the calotte used for incident-light metering. Slide it aside and reveal the little lens to do reflected-light metering. But I guess there must also be a control to switch between the two metering modes, besides moving the calotte. It is dome shaped. I tried using it yesterday but slid the dome away from the little lens. I metered by pointing it at a mid-tone from where I was standing. Should I keep the dome over the lens or slide it off of the lens if I am metering from camera to subject? Last question and I think I'll actually be able to use this meter. Thank You! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted August 15, 2012 Share #48 Posted August 15, 2012 I metered by pointing it at a mid-tone from where I was standing. Should I keep the dome over the lens or slide it off of the lens if I am metering from camera to subject? Pointing the meter from camera to subject is reflected-light metering, so slide the calotte away from the metering eye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiMPLiFY Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share #49 Posted August 15, 2012 Thank you! I found this on the Kodak website and think it would be prudent to do another test roll practicing with the meter as suggested in the article. This will allow me to learn, test my meter, practice and become more confident as a result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted August 15, 2012 Share #50 Posted August 15, 2012 The camera is not a teacher any more than a pencil can teach one to write well. Any freaking camera will do. Any friggin pencil will do. . Learn up. Dump the Leica and get to work. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted August 16, 2012 Share #51 Posted August 16, 2012 The camera is not a teacher any more than a pencil can teach one to write well. Well ... Mike Johnston thinks otherwise—for good reason. And the reason is not Leica fanboyism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 16, 2012 Share #52 Posted August 16, 2012 FWIW, Mike Johnston elaborates on his exercise in this follow-up post. See also his added comment in the 'featured comments' section. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiMPLiFY Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share #53 Posted August 16, 2012 I don't mean to sound like a dolt. I'm not new to metering but I am new to this style of meter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
businessasusual Posted August 16, 2012 Share #54 Posted August 16, 2012 The camera is not a teacher any more than a pencil can teach one to write well. Any freaking camera will do. Any friggin pencil will do. . Learn up. Dump the Leica and get to work. . Mmmm, Pico, I am not sure about that being true for my experience with Leica. When my daughter did photography at school the requirement was a Ricoh all manual film camera - nothing automatic (think Ricoh 5 in those days, great little camera, great lens for it's price). Mine all had bells and whistles - most of my learning came from reading and I am talking serious reading - The Zone System, Ansel Adams Trilogy, hundreds of books, literally - history of, autobiographies and looking at thousands of images over 40 years. The pieces truly only started coming together when I purchased my first Leica M6TTL/Noctilux f1.0 lens - and it was my pursuit of excellence that lead me to this doorstep. From this point - The Zone System as theory kicked in and Leica led me from there. I changed my entire approach to taking photographs - I had to start all over again, but now I had a tool that forced me to think - exposure/focus. Least but not last, the results I managed out of my Leica experience have, if not for anyone else, inspired me to never give up. I already had a passion for photography - only now it was coupled by my love affair with all things Leica. Leica has led me to writing this response. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted August 16, 2012 Share #55 Posted August 16, 2012 The pieces truly only started coming together when I purchased my first Leica M6TTL/Noctilux f1.0 lens - and it was my pursuit of excellence that lead me to this doorstep. From this point - The Zone System as theory kicked in and Leica led me from there. I changed my entire approach to taking photographs - I had to start all over again, but now I had a tool that forced me to think - exposure/focus. Umm, you could have learnt the zone system with your Ricoh. Or any camera. I might be misunderstanding your post but it seems you're saying that from the point you had the TTL/Noctilux the zone system theory "kicked in", which I understand to mean you began realising how that system works, such that you began to learn it. I'm surprised you hadn't put it to practice with previous cameras, actually, since you had read so much before (I'm not judging here, just expressing surprise). It has been said many times before on this forum, but perhaps not often enough, the connection between the photographer and the camera is an important link to creativity. But a good photographer can use pretty much any camera to take good photos. The equipment is largely irrelevant. Still, if one doesn't like (or at least accept) what one uses then there likely won't be any photos made. And no photo is always a worse photo than a bad photo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
businessasusual Posted August 16, 2012 Share #56 Posted August 16, 2012 Umm, you could have learnt the zone system with your Ricoh. Or any camera. I might be misunderstanding your post but it seems you're saying that from the point you had the TTL/Noctilux the zone system theory "kicked in", which I understand to mean you began realising how that system works, such that you began to learn it. I'm surprised you hadn't put it to practice with previous cameras, actually, since you had read so much before (I'm not judging here, just expressing surprise). It has been said many times before on this forum, but perhaps not often enough, the connection between the photographer and the camera is an important link to creativity. But a good photographer can use pretty much any camera to take good photos. The equipment is largely irrelevant. Still, if one doesn't like (or at least accept) what one uses then there likely won't be any photos made. And no photo is always a worse photo than a bad photo. Hi Scarlet, no Zone System made sense with all cameras I had (at the time a Nikon F5). The simplicity of my M6TTL coupled together with Noctilux meant I was getting results I had NEVER seen with F5. Metering/Focusing was a synch with Leica, (I had it with F5 but Menu driven was a nightmare) I was challenged in that I only had the Noctilux (I traded 3 prime lenses and my F5 for M6 and ONE lens) I had to work with what I had and essentially I started again. I wasn't changing lenses every half hour - I was walking, crouching, looking down - I nailed shots hand held in the dark that were pin sharp - that I attribute to Leica. I saw results I had never had. Now my M9 feels like an appendage - so my focus is on what is happening around me at all times. Not to mention the dicretion Leica offers - being terribly conscious of peoples space I found the F5 inhibited my approach. Nowadays, they don't even know I am there and nor do I at times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axot Posted August 20, 2012 Share #57 Posted August 20, 2012 I think using two films and three lenses will distort the exercise, it's kinda cheating. The whole point is to work under very limited constrains... Anyway, good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiMPLiFY Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share #58 Posted August 20, 2012 I understand your concerns and I feel the same way you do. This is an exercise to help see luminance as opposed to color. My compositions are also very important to me. I know that if I use a longer focal length that subjects in the frame appear closer, larger and fill more of the frame. Using a 35mm in those instances would make things appear too small and include so much information as to distract the viewer. If selecting a lens to focus more attention on the subject is cheating then I am cheating. I thought about it and used the view lines and decided that I would use the appropriate lens to focus attention on my subject and the appropriate film to get proper exposure. (Tri-X and TMAX 3200 for really low light) I am continuing to use B&W film in order to learn more about luminance which is the point, I think? "Photographing is like jogging: benefit accrues to time spent doing it, not how fast you go or how much ground you cover" ~ Mike If I decide to jog, do yoga and do calisthenics then I am working on cardio, flexibility and strength. If I decide to use 35, 50 and 90 to work a subject or a faster film for really low light then I am working on luminance, composition and strengthening my chances of getting a proper exposure. I could keep looking and say to myself, "No, I cannot take that picture because I only have one lens and it does not focus close enough", I cannot take that picture because I only have one film and it's too dark", I would spend a great deal of a year in frustration because I know I have 2 other lenses in the cupboard and a faster film in the freezer. Some people have adhered to the guidelines strictly and others have used their own variations. One person shot color film for a year which I think really defeated the purpose of seeing light and ignoring color. I'm not in school and I am not being graded it's an exercise to learn to see light. It would be interesting to hear other thoughts as to whether I would really learn more about light if I handicapped myself with one focal length and one film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axot Posted August 21, 2012 Share #59 Posted August 21, 2012 Wow, calm down (referring to your blog post), no offense intended. I'm no authority and don't qualify even as an amateur photographer. I'm learning the basics yet, on a DSLR, and am toying with the possibility of a RF b&w film camera exactly because of the restrains (that's the reason why Im lurking this board). Hence take all I write with tons of salt, most certainly everyone else in this thread can give better advice than me. Maybe one emoticon was missing in order to soften the tone of my previous post. I didn't mean to bash you, nor I think more lenses would render the experience useless. What I tried to say is you'll embarking in a 1-year journey, you must commit if you want to accomplish it - and start bending the rules in the first week is not very promising in my opinion (that sounds like something *I* would do, and I'm not very successful in finishing things...). Do your thing and be happy! Ps: English is not my main language, so if this still sounds harsh, blame the translation. I really admire what you are doing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StS Posted August 21, 2012 Share #60 Posted August 21, 2012 It would be interesting to hear other thoughts as to whether I would really learn more about light if I handicapped myself with one focal length and one film. Well using one film would have the advantage, that you know this film very well then. It is a very old scientific truth to keep only one parameter variable to be able to track changes. If the aim is to learm more about light, my recommendation would be to add at least one yellow-filter, maybe also yellow-green for portraits. Black-and-White films have different spectral sensitivities and react differently to coloured filters, which would be another reason to stay with one film. I had a similar exercise once, when my standard briefcase travel companion then, the M8, was stuck in Solms and not finished for a trip. I took the M6, the 50mm and some BW400 (I had them developed in minilabs in Singapore and Tokyo). This gave some pictures I still like and was a lot of fun. However, there is a drawback in this setup, the BW400 - I like this film very much, however, if one really wants to know one film, my recommendation these days would be to develop it oneself. Stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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