Visoflex - What are these parts

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I have gotten my hands on a nice M3 with two lenses (35 and 50), and a complete visoflex-bag, also with a 280mm tele for it.

I'm totally new to analog cameras, but I have gotten some things explained about it, taken a few shots with it, and fooled around with the 280mm tele and the visoflex.

 

While I think I'm starting to grasp most things with the camera and the visoflex, I still have a few questions about the visoflex-system....some strange parts in there I dont know what they do. I have two pics on it to help you explain for me. First pic here is the whole bag with the two most mysterious pieces put outside it. Further down I'll post the second pic which is a close up of those two parts.

 

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First I wonder if what is called visoflex is the whole system with the bellows, the rail, and the lens in between the bellows, or if the visoflex is just the small "periscope" with the mirror in it?

 

I have used the visoflex, without the bellows/rails, with my 280mm tele, and its simple to understand how that works. Its just like a SLR, and you focus as usual by turning a ring on the lens.

BUT, the visoflex as shown in the bag here, with the special lens between the bellows, there you seem to focus by moving the whole system back/forth on the rail. For some reason you do like this instead of turning something on the lens itself, as on all regular Leica-lenses. Why?

 

Also, from what I've understood, you are supposed to be able to draw out the outer bellow (the one in front of the lens) and fit a piece of film there and photograph it. That is, you're supposed to be able to focus that close. I've tried it, but I cant get nearer than about 10cm away from that point, with the system as shown in the bag (I dont dare disassembling it or changing parts since I dont know how it all works). Comments or idéas on this?

 

 

 

Then on to the last pic/question. Here's the close up of the two pieces I put outside the bag.

 

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It seems that small piece of lens (or whatever it is, it looks very simple), is worth some money. So what is is really, and how is it supposed to be used? Do I replace the other lens between the bellows (which by the way looks like a real lens with focal length and stuff written around it, and big glass) with this small one, to get other abilities from the system, or is this used in some other way, maybe together with the other lens, like before or after it? And what is that other huge metal-thing that says "Elmar" inside, and which also seems to fit together with this small lens-looking thing?

 

Many thanks if anyone can help, or even just take the time to read all of this

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Oh, and also, is this Visoflex I, II, or III, or something else?

 

And might anyone be interrested in buying this stuff you think, complete in the case?

People still use it, or is it only for extreme collectors?

Its not like an ad, if that is against rules, I'm selling it locally in Sweden if I do later on, I just wonder how hot it is on the market. Guess you guys know all about that.

 

Thanks again

[luigi bertolotti]

It is a nice collector's outfit: Visoflex I with bellows I and vertical finder; in the second picture seems to me to recognize an adapter that was used to control the stops of the 5 cm Elmar when mounted on devices taht made difficult to operate directly on the lens... a rare item, just for collectors... was used also to use the Elmar 5 cm as an enlarger lens.

 

Not so easy to use of course: the Viso I required the twin cable you can see in the 1st picture... of course, this means TO BE USED ON TRIPOD: forget free hand shots.

[doubice]

Many thanks if anyone can help, or even just take the time to read all of this

 

Hmmm....

 

Sebastian,

 

Quite a few questions and it would take a long lesson in the Leica system to explain it all. What you have is quite a nice set-up, which includes a Visoflex I, Bellows I and some focusing adapters. The "black piece" which say Elmar on it, is a focusing mount for the Elmar 50mm lens, when used on the Visoflex. The Elmar lens also has a diaphragm adjustment accessory code-named VALOO, which makes it easier to adjust the diaphragm without breaking your fingernails.

 

The bellows has a head of a 4.5/135mm Hektor lens. Your Elmar 50mm lens is a thread mount version, made for thread mount Leicas; if it fits the M3, it probably has a Thread to M Mount adapter on it.

 

The Visoflex unit comprises of two items - the mirror box and the finder; you have both in the case.

 

That is about it in a nutshell - I am sure you'll get some more information later. If you want to get really familiar with what you have and how to use it, try to get a publication called Leica Manual. These were published on an ongoing basis, always adding information about any new equipment. They were published by Morgan and Morgan and quite often available on eBay for next to nothing. Get one published during the mid to late 1950's, it will include all the equipment that you have and will give you months of bedtime reading.

 

All the best,

 

Jan

[doubice]

 

Not so easy to use of course: the Viso I required the twin cable you can see in the 1st picture... of course, this means TO BE USED ON TRIPOD: forget free hand shots.

 

Many and I mean MANY years ago, I used the Visoflex I hand-held. With the right hand holding the camera, the left hand focused first, than cradled the Visoflex from the bottom, with my middle finger on the mirror release. Right hand tripped the camera shutter and advanced the film.

 

Boy, was I happy when I got the Visoflex II.

 

Jan

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Ok, thanks a lot

 

What I have is a Visoflex I system.

The Visoflex itself is just the mirrorbox and the finder.

Great

 

 

But whats the difference between the already mounted (between bellows) Hektor 135/4.5, which really looks like a real lens, and has apertures as high as f32, and that other small junk-looking thing with almost no printed info on it but seems to be a Elmar 50/3.5?

 

Whats the main things about these two lenses....different properties and uses?

 

 

And does anyone know about the film-photography thats supposed to be possible by fitting the film on the end of the outer bellow? I cant focus at that distance with the setup as mounted in the bag.

 

Thanks again

 

Oh, and this is supposed to be attractive stuff, like $300 or so?

Then I have the cool 280/4.8 which is pretty cool and very nice looking, which seems to be worth around $200.

 

What I'm thinking of is keeping just the M3 and the 50/1.5, selling the rest of this stuff....after playing around with it some more

 

EDIT: By the way, the first pic I took recently with the camera was with the visoflex and the 280mm, with a closeup lens of power +8, so it got pretty close.)

Lets see how all these pics turn out when I turn in the film in a few days....still about 20 b/w shots to go.

[luigi bertolotti]

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Many and I mean MANY years ago, I used the Visoflex I hand-held. With the right hand holding the camera, the left hand focused first, than cradled the Visoflex from the bottom, with my middle finger on the mirror release. Right hand tripped the camera shutter and advanced the film.

 

Boy, was I happy when I got the Visoflex II.

 

Jan

 

Compliments Jan, I have Viso I & II and never tried to use V I freehand : by contrast, the Viso II is not much different from an honest SLR... and M4+Viso II, that I often use, seems to me less heavy than my Contarex (which, anyway, is a fascinating camera... a taste quite different from Leica)

[luigi bertolotti]

Ok, thanks a lot

 

What I have is a Visoflex I system.

The Visoflex itself is just the mirrorbox and the finder.

Great

 

 

But whats the difference between the already mounted (between bellows) Hektor 135/4.5, which really looks like a real lens, and has apertures as high as f32, and that other small junk-looking thing with almost no printed info on it but seems to be a Elmar 50/3.5?

 

Whats the main things about these two lenses....different properties and uses?

 

 

And does anyone know about the film-photography thats supposed to be possible by fitting the film on the end of the outer bellow? I cant focus at that distance with the setup as mounted in the bag.

 

Thanks again

 

Oh, and this is supposed to be attractive stuff, like $300 or so?

Then I have the cool 280/4.8 which is pretty cool and very nice looking, which seems to be worth around $200.

 

What I'm thinking of is keeping just the M3 and the 50/1.5, selling the rest of this stuff....after playing around with it some more

 

EDIT: By the way, the first pic I took recently with the camera was with the visoflex and the 280mm, with a closeup lens of power +8, so it got pretty close.)

Lets see how all these pics turn out when I turn in the film in a few days....still about 20 b/w shots to go.

 

BTW, I notice the Elmar 50 is a so called "Red scale", so the last version; your $ evaluations are something low, in my op., even if conditions are not clear in the pictures; an advice: retain, as you say, M3 body and 50, but think again on selling the 280: can You post a pict of it (there are three versions of it) ? Maybe is worth to find a Viso II and enjoy the 280: is not too heavy and a very good tele expecially the last version.

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Why would it be so hard to handheld the visoflex I?

I havent tried shooting like that, but I have plans to do it to try the 280mm outside.

I cant see the problem, as long as the "two-way remote" works.

When I took the extreme macro with the 280mm on a tripod I locked the mirror up first with the "remote", then mounted the other end carefully to the M3, and then took the pic. Had to be careful like that cause I got a rather long exposure.

 

But if the timing is right (I didn't feel like pushing my luck on my first M3 shot ever) for the "remote" I guess its just to press it and mirror will go up just before shutter opens?

 

Of course, far from a DSLR, but I guess its still usable....almost

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BTW, I notice the Elmar 50 is a so called "Red scale", so the last version; your $ evaluations are something low, in my op., even if conditions are not clear in the pictures; an advice: retain, as you say, M3 body and 50, but think again on selling the 280: can You post a pict of it (there are three versions of it) ? Maybe is worth to find a Viso II and enjoy the 280: is not too heavy and a very good tele expecially the last version.

You mean that small junk-looking thing apparently called Elmar 50/3.5 that I dont know how to use, is something special and worth some money?

 

Here is the 280mm.

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And here the setup of my first macro with it (with a modern highquality acromatic closeup lens mounted in front).

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Thanks

 

EDIT: Oh, condition....well, the picture ain't really crystal clear, and there are some particles in the view. Not much at all in the tele I think, but somewehre in the visoflex. Maybe most of it is in the eyepiece I guess, or the mirror might be somewhat dirty too.

[luigi bertolotti]

Well, the Elmar 5 cm is never a rare lens...anyway it does not worth much, I only take not e it is of a kind rather modern and not SO common as other versions... to be more precise, can you get a look to the focus index ? If it is triangle-shaped and not quadrangular-shaped, the lens is of the last SM series (probably, number over 1.2xx.xxx, it is engraved on the front rim, tiny numbers...), the most appreciated, also for use (the Elmar never changed design, but glass type was changed during its long life).

The 280 is the 2nd type, common as is the 3rd, that is better in optical performance (I have had both, now only one...); for what I see in some marketplaces, a 280 2nd type as yours has anyway a value in the range of 500$ if in fine condition, with cap.

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Well, the Elmar 5 cm is never a rare lens...anyway it does not worth much, I only take not e it is of a kind rather modern and not SO common as other versions... to be more precise, can you get a look to the focus index ? If it is triangle-shaped and not quadrangular-shaped, the lens is of the last SM series (probably, number over 1.2xx.xxx, it is engraved on the front rim, tiny numbers...), the most appreciated, also for use (the Elmar never changed design, but glass type was changed during its long life).

The 280 is the 2nd type, common as is the 3rd, that is better in optical performance (I have had both, now only one...); for what I see in some marketplaces, a 280 2nd type as yours has anyway a value in the range of 500$ if in fine condition, with cap.

Ok, thanks

 

Well here it is, if this is what you wanted to see.

 

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I'm very grateful for the help, but I still dont feel I have any clue what this small piece of glass is for. Is it just like the one already mounted between the bellows, or what is its use? It feels so small and cheap, and not at all much glass in it. Hardly looks like a lens to me

[luigi bertolotti]

Yep, "triangular-shaped" : the last version...

damn, are You JOKING ? "hardly looks a lens" ? The Elmar 50 was THE lens that made Leica a famuos name in the '20s !!! First production in 1928 fixed to Leica model A !!! Ended its glorious career 33 years after in bayonet mount for Leica M, over 375.000 were made !!! and the 2,8 version is STILL MANUFACTURED TODAY !!!

it's a PIECE OF HISTORY in the photo world ! I think there is not a Leica collector in the world that does not own AT LEAST ONE Elmar 50 ! I have four, but the experts list I seem 13 or 14 variants of THE ELMAR !

[ASBR]

Yep, "triangular-shaped" : the last version...

damn, are You JOKING ? "hardly looks a lens" ? The Elmar 50 was THE lens that made Leica a famuos name in the '20s !!! First production in 1928 fixed to Leica model A !!! Ended its glorious career 33 years after in bayonet mount for Leica M, over 375.000 were made !!! and the 2,8 version is STILL MANUFACTURED TODAY !!!

it's a PIECE OF HISTORY in the photo world ! I think there is not a Leica collector in the world that does not own AT LEAST ONE Elmar 50 ! I have four, but the experts list I seem 13 or 14 variants of THE ELMAR !

Heh, ok, calm down

 

But for the Leica, regular bayonet, I have a 35mm and a 50mm, and they look like real lenses, they are big and heavy, look like lots of glass, and has info printed around the lens opening just like every lens out there.

The same goes for the "thing" mounted between the bellows.

This very small piece of glass though....well....I dont know what it looks like in comparison. A toy?

 

Anyway, its funny, cause I still dont know a thing about how that Elmar 50 is supposed to be used. Is it just like the 135mm mounted between the bellows? Could be I guess, since its not for direct camera mount from what I can see (its so small). On the other hand it has some focusing nob that you can turn, and the 135mm does not have that, since you focus it with the rail instead.

Beats me...

 

Thanks for all your help. I know, I'm a newb and dont get anything about Leicas, but I think I've learned quite a bit in quite a short time anyway....just these visoflex things that are rather messy.

 

EDIT: Anyway, I guess if I'll sell all the visoflex stuff I'll try and sell all of whats inside the bag as a packet, including the bag. I guess that must be best, since it seems to be a complete collection. Then maybe the 280mm separatly of course.

[luigi bertolotti]

The Elmar 50 is so tiny for a pair of reasons:

1) Is a 3,5 lens, with 4 elements only... light glass. I suppose teh 50 You have

for your Leica M is a Summicron f2 or even a Summilux f1,4, of course heavier,

with much more glass (6 or 7 elements, larger)

2) Is rectratable into the Leica body (you have to detach the hood with diaphragm

facilty that is seen on the picture); in such position, you have a very flat and portable

equipment: the lens, in "no use" position, extends 0,5 cm about from the body.

 

The Elmar you have is for screw mount Leicas (lot of models): to use it onto a Leica M

body, You have to use an adapter ring, very easy to find, and cheap (original or Cosina/Voiglander).

The rangefinder works as usual with this ring. Elmar, even to today standards, is an

excellent lens, but if You have already a 50 and have no plan to be struck by the

"Leica Collector's ill" can sell it at a price in the range of 100$: the special hood

above mentioned is an uncommon add-on, interesting only for collectors, that can

bring, I suppose 50$ ore some more (do not have idea of recent prices)

[ASBR]

The Elmar 50 is so tiny for a pair of reasons:

1) Is a 3,5 lens, with 4 elements only... light glass. I suppose teh 50 You have

for your Leica M is a Summicron f2 or even a Summilux f1,4, of course heavier,

with much more glass (6 or 7 elements, larger)

2) Is rectratable into the Leica body (you have to detach the hood with diaphragm

facilty that is seen on the picture); in such position, you have a very flat and portable

equipment: the lens, in "no use" position, extends 0,5 cm about from the body.

 

The Elmar you have is for screw mount Leicas (lot of models): to use it onto a Leica M

body, You have to use an adapter ring, very easy to find, and cheap (original or Cosina/Voiglander).

The rangefinder works as usual with this ring. Elmar, even to today standards, is an

excellent lens, but if You have already a 50 and have no plan to be struck by the

"Leica Collector's ill" can sell it at a price in the range of 100$: the special hood

above mentioned is an uncommon add-on, interesting only for collectors, that can

bring, I suppose 50$ ore some more (do not have idea of recent prices)

Thank you

 

I have somewhat hard understanding all this though, since theres a lot of technical talk and english ain't my native language.

 

But what you say is that my small light Elmar 50 aint for visoflex use, and instead is supposed to somehow fit into my M3?

 

If so, what lens am I supposed to put into the visoflex to get 1:1 macros that it is supposed to handle? The 135 mounted on the pics doesn't get that close.

And I guess the only point with the rails/bellows system for the visoflex is macros and nothing else? I mean, who would want to carry all of that around just to take regular pics that you could take with the M3 alone...

[luigi bertolotti]

Well, your Elmar can be mounted also on your Visoflex, but mybe can need some kind of adapter... is not clear in the pictures... anyway, TRY! Leicas are only apparently complicated gear: unscrew the lens on the bellows, and see if the screw mount of the Elmar can fit on it

[ASBR]

Well, your Elmar can be mounted also on your Visoflex, but mybe can need some kind of adapter... is not clear in the pictures... anyway, TRY! Leicas are only apparently complicated gear: unscrew the lens on the bellows, and see if the screw mount of the Elmar can fit on it

Maybe I'll dare do it, I'll see later on

But would that give me better macro, like 1:1 macro? Cant do it as is with the 135/4.5 mounted.

 

Also, you mean with some kind of converter, that I dont seem to have, that small Elmar 50/3.5 can, and are mainly supposed to, fit directly on the M3???

 

Thanks for your help, I think I soon have all the questions answered

Found some manuals for it also, mostly in german though sadly, so maybe I'll figure something out by reading them or looking at pictures.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[luigi bertolotti]

Surely, If you can mount the Elmar 50 on the bellows, you can obtain a reproduction ratio of 1:1, and, mechanically speaking, also beyond (i.e. the lens acts as a "micro" more than a "macro", as usually is said when you go to ENLARGED reproduction on the film, say a 12x18 mm area on the standard 24x36 film... it's a 2:1 ratio); but, i think the Elmar would not show great image quality at so high ratios: a good, famous lens, but not specialized for this use.

 

I confirm also that using the Elmar 50 on a Leica M body (M3 - M2 - M4...) is not only possible, but common: the ring adapter is simply a screw-to-bayonet that was produced in high numbers by Leitz (and for this is not difficult to find) and a "compatible" ring is still produced by Cosina/Voigtlander, because they currently produce and sell lenses with 39x1 Leica screw mount and lot of people (see this forum, too....) like to use them on their Leica M bodies. Be aware if you look for one : the adapters are "dedicated" to specific lens lengths, to manage correctly the frames that appear on the Viewfinders of Leica Ms depending on the focal length you mount: in the old Leica catalog three rings existed (codes 14097 14098 14099... don't remember which one is for 50mm lenses), and also the current Cosina/Voigtlander rings follow this rule.

They cost about 55$, see for instance Adapters: LTM to M

[ASBR]

Surely, If you can mount the Elmar 50 on the bellows, you can obtain a reproduction ratio of 1:1, and, mechanically speaking, also beyond (i.e. the lens acts as a "micro" more than a "macro", as usually is said when you go to ENLARGED reproduction on the film, say a 12x18 mm area on the standard 24x36 film... it's a 2:1 ratio); but, i think the Elmar would not show great image quality at so high ratios: a good, famous lens, but not specialized for this use.

 

I confirm also that using the Elmar 50 on a Leica M body (M3 - M2 - M4...) is not only possible, but common: the ring adapter is simply a screw-to-bayonet that was produced in high numbers by Leitz (and for this is not difficult to find) and a "compatible" ring is still produced by Cosina/Voigtlander, because they currently produce and sell lenses with 39x1 Leica screw mount and lot of people (see this forum, too....) like to use them on their Leica M bodies. Be aware if you look for one : the adapters are "dedicated" to specific lens lengths, to manage correctly the frames that appear on the Viewfinders of Leica Ms depending on the focal length you mount: in the old Leica catalog three rings existed (codes 14097 14098 14099... don't remember which one is for 50mm lenses), and also the current Cosina/Voigtlander rings follow this rule.

They cost about 55$, see for instance Adapters: LTM to M

 

Ah, great, then theres nothing wrong with the setup as is. The 135mm aint supposed to focus down to 1:1.

Dont get why anyone would want that small Elmar 50 directly on the Leica, when there are larger heavy f1.5 lenses instead....maybe it was a bargain back then, like a good budgetsolution. Oh well, thanks a lot for your help. I'll probably try to sell EVERYTHING exept the M3 itself and the 50/1.5 lens for it.

But first of all I gotta shoot up the film I have in it and see if the camera works at all