MarcRochkind Posted March 10, 2007 Share #1  Posted March 10, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) A well-known phenomenon of the internet, and probably communication in general, is that someone initiates a message when he or she has something to say, and then that message is passed on if it's interesting.  So, when there's a defect in a product, the unhappy owner often wants to tell the world. Then that message gets amplified by those who want to emphasize the problem, but also by those who think that the problem is being over-emphasized. Both responses work to get the message repeated.  Hardly anyone posts a message saying that nothing at all has happened. This is really unfortunate, because those who follow internet posts without clearly understanding the huge bias in the sampling often get the wrong impression.  But I'm not going to fall into that trap! I'm posting this message just to say that I've had my Leica M8 for a almost two months, and absolutely nothing at all has gone wrong.  (I have posted complaints about poor software support for Leica M8 DNGs, especially by Apple, but this is hardly Leica's problem. They should get an award for using DNG.)  I don't know how many Leica M8s are in the hands of users. Maybe 5000 at most? (Wild guess.) I doubt very much if many of the 3000, or 4000, or 4750, or 4950, happy users have bothered to post any completely boring messages like this one.  --Marc  ImageIngester.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eronald Posted March 10, 2007 Share #2 Â Posted March 10, 2007 Users now see their pix pronto. Before one frame in 3 was wrecked by misfocus, misexposure etc but you only noticed a week later. Seen this way, the M8 has superior global reliability than my old screw Leicas. But I wish I could really trust it to work when I switch it on. Â Edmund Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted March 10, 2007 Share #3 Â Posted March 10, 2007 Users now see their pix pronto. Before one frame in 3 was wrecked by misfocus, misexposure etc but you only noticed a week later. Seen this way, the M8 has superior global reliability than my old screw Leicas. But I wish I could really trust it to work when I switch it on. Â Edmund You can trust it to work every time you switch it on until it doesn't work anymore. Just like every other thing ever made. Can you trust that when you go out to your car to drive to a important meeting that the car will start. Yes you can until the computer in it desides to die. It is the same with the Leica M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george + Posted March 10, 2007 Share #4 Â Posted March 10, 2007 You wrote "Yes you can until the computer in it desides to die." Â That may be true. But in most cases computer controlled cars have MUCH fewer problems than those of the good old days. Remember distributors? Coils? Spark plugs of old? That you could access? They needed it. Condensers and points? Carburettors? There were few long trips that did not require some kind of small adjustment or repair. Remember the "mechanic on duty" signs on every corner garage? When corners had garages I mean. We just did not notice how much better our cars got over the years. Â And the same goes for cameras. But not for us. We got worse. We whine, complain and want assistance at every step. Ugh. Â And legal issues. Heck, every User Manual these days starts with pages describing the unintended dangers of owning the stuff. "This camera was not intended to be used as a sledgehammer", " Swinging the camera by it's strap could endanger passers by", "pushing your fingers into the toaster may electrocute you", "keeping the sound volume high may damage your ears", "taking pictures with the lens cap on may lead to disappointing results", "buying this product may lead to argumentative net-browzing", . . . . . Â Old principle; the squeeky wheel gets oiled. And the non squeeking wheel does not. The many of us whose M8 does not fail keep quiet. It is a pity, because it is a great camera - and getting better. Â Yes, I know; good news is no news. Or was it the other way around? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchell Posted March 10, 2007 Share #5 Â Posted March 10, 2007 George, Â You're absolutely right. If these kids now days had lived 70 years ago they'd all be dead from making toast in the bathtub. Â Geez, I could grow into this curmudgeon thing. Â Best, Â Mitchell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 10, 2007 Share #6 Â Posted March 10, 2007 "This camera was not intended to be used as a sledgehammer", " Swinging the camera by it's strap could endanger passers by", "pushing your fingers into the toaster may electrocute you", "keeping the sound volume high may damage your ears", "taking pictures with the lens cap on may lead to disappointing results", "buying this product may lead to argumentative net-browzing", . . . . . ROFLMAO. I couldn't agree more, George. Â The 2 (real ones) I remember were a bag Marks & Spencer salted peanuts that heralded the warning: "May contain nuts." and the bag of pop-tarts with the warning "May be hot when heated." Â Back on topic though, Marc, I'm glad that you haven't experienced the faults that some owners have found. For my part I've experienced some of them but not enough to cause me to raise an alarm because I'm confident that Leica will sort them out and because I'm so impressed with this camera and the images it produces. Incidentally, the IR issue for me is a feature rather than a failing because I intend to use it to shoot infrared. Â Thanks for trying to redress the balance by placing the "no comments" into the "positively nots" column. Â Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george + Posted March 10, 2007 Share #7 Â Posted March 10, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) You guys are encouraging. Very. Â How about reclaiming this world for us? Let's take if from the whiners, the zealots, the proselitizers. (Or does this make me one?) Â Live and let live! Â What has this got to do with cameras? Well, that is where we started. How do you think early Leica users, I mean in the thirties, operated? They tried, experimented, they learned. Tried films, tried developers, tried lenses, tried . . . . gosh the list goes on. And they had FUN! Â Now for the few professionals here - my apologies. But aren't you, the real pros amongst us, the ones who are showing the light? Sean, Jamie, Guy. You don't complain.You try, find solutions and often lead the way for us. Thanks. It's the ones who did not buy the camera who complain the most. Ugh. It happens not just with cameras . . . . Â Enjoy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted March 10, 2007 Share #8 Â Posted March 10, 2007 Many of the posts pointing out the M8's and Leica's failures and faults are legitimate and constructive. However, far too many of them simply point out how obsessive-compulsive the posters can be, particularly when posts go off on some unmeasurable tangent. At that point, the M8's flaws pale in comparison to the poster's, and I marvel at how the forum can instantly be transformed into an international therapy session for the blind and the blinded. Some of the most strident critics become incredibly belligerent when criticism is leveled at them -- theirs is only to give, not receive. This is only my opinion, but if the shoe fits... Â Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchell Posted March 10, 2007 Share #9 Â Posted March 10, 2007 The entitlement of some posters is truly amazing to me. It doesn't seem to be a matter of wanting to return a camera for their money back. It seems to be they are ENTITLED to the camera of their dreams, and they have to have it NOW. There is no other solution for their pain. Â How will they survive any real depravation? Â The Buddhists call this "grasping." It creates misery for the grasper, but thankfully only needs to be irritation for those who hear the whining. Â Best, Â Mitchell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 10, 2007 Share #10 Â Posted March 10, 2007 My twopenn'orth. Had the M8 since January 2. Shot 2098 frames. No freeze ups, no disasters. Fact, not opinion. Â Sure, I think Auto WB should be improved, and I'd prefer a slightly quieter wind on (the SHUTTER is really quiet!), but I'm delighted with the low noise of well exposed high ISO images following the 1.92 upgrade, I'm so pleased to be able to use a RF camera again for personal and professional projects, and I love the way the camera handles. Â The M8's my companion when I go for walks around where I live, it comes with me to workshops and is a perfect tool for the visual documentations that are a USP for me as a trainer, and I'm earn good money with it in documentary and performance photography. Â I value and appreciate the huge support that has come through participants in this forum where I learn so much. I feel real concern for users who have had problems - if Leica Quality Control is at fault, it shouldn't happen and they've every right to be angry. And I get a bit grumpy when I come across carping comments from people who've either not bought one, or who have, but don't realise that the transition from film to digital is long, slow, and sometimes painfully frustrating. Â Best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted March 10, 2007 Share #11 Â Posted March 10, 2007 Yes being 55 I do remember cars with all that stuff. And I liked that I could actually see the motor when I opened the hood/bonnet (I had a 1959 Jag MK IX saloon) and do some work on it when needed. Not so anymore. Today you need $10000.00+ of computer hardware and software just to see when # 1 cylinder is firing. I actually gave away my timing light. I am a very happy owner of a Leica M8. Â You wrote "Yes you can until the computer in it desides to die."Â That may be true. But in most cases computer controlled cars have MUCH fewer problems than those of the good old days. Remember distributors? Coils? Spark plugs of old? That you could access? They needed it. Condensers and points? Carburettors? There were few long trips that did not require some kind of small adjustment or repair. Remember the "mechanic on duty" signs on every corner garage? When corners had garages I mean. We just did not notice how much better our cars got over the years. Â And the same goes for cameras. But not for us. We got worse. We whine, complain and want assistance at every step. Ugh. Â And legal issues. Heck, every User Manual these days starts with pages describing the unintended dangers of owning the stuff. "This camera was not intended to be used as a sledgehammer", " Swinging the camera by it's strap could endanger passers by", "pushing your fingers into the toaster may electrocute you", "keeping the sound volume high may damage your ears", "taking pictures with the lens cap on may lead to disappointing results", "buying this product may lead to argumentative net-browzing", . . . . . Â Old principle; the squeeky wheel gets oiled. And the non squeeking wheel does not. The many of us whose M8 does not fail keep quiet. It is a pity, because it is a great camera - and getting better. Â Yes, I know; good news is no news. Or was it the other way around? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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