A B&W Only DNG menu option in a Firmware Update, Possible ??

[Guest Ming Rider]

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Not being a technical kinda guy (when it comes to cameras), I had a thought that it may be possible to have a B&W only DNG option in the menu, solely as the result of a firmware update?

 

Now that would be VERY nice.

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[andybarton]

But the sensor records in colour, therefore the RAW file is always in colour

[Guest Ming Rider]

But if it can produce In-Camera B&W jpegs, can't it do the same with DNG like the MM ?

[andybarton]

No, because the MM has a mono-only sensor, that doesn't record any colour information.

 

The M8 ONLY records colour information.

 

The jpgs are created from the colour RAW file, by the camera's inbuilt computer.

[WestMichigan]

Andy about sums it up.

With all the fresh info floating around due to the release of the Monochrom(e) M it's easy to get muxxed up on things, but it's easy to boil down: The M8 Imaging System is engineered for the generation of a color image file. Whatever B&W imagery we as users make from those files comes from altering an original color source file - even the B&W Jpeg setting built into our cameras.

 

Now, whether you might be able to implement a Digital Workflow which allows you to only 'see' black and white images at every step of the process, I'm not sure of - but you might be able to. If it's important to you, might be worth a little research and/or question asking.

 

Richard in Mihcigna

 

But the sensor records in colour, therefore the RAW file is always in colour

[Guest Ming Rider]

Thanks Andy & Richard.

 

Whilst I understand about the sensor only seeing the color spectrum, that now begs the question, "what part of the spectrum does the MM sensor see"? Surely there isn't a B&W part to the spectrum, which makes me wonder if the MM arrives at it's B&W images by in-camera processing ?

 

I did say I was a camera technology simpleton.

[AlanG]

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Why would anyone want to do this? You would give up control in post processing and gain nothing in return.

[AlanG]

Thanks Andy & Richard.

 

Whilst I understand about the sensor only seeing the color spectrum, that now begs the question, "what part of the spectrum does the MM sensor see"? Surely there isn't a B&W part to the spectrum, which makes me wonder if the MM arrives at it's B&W images by in-camera processing ?

 

I did say I was a camera technology simpleton.

 

The basic concept is that color in real life is produced in various ways. Color film and color digital cameras cannot actually record the colors of a scene. They only can sample the red, green, and blue values of each spot in a scene as a density value (film) or numerical value (digital). (There are some aspects of color in real life that this three color sampling method will not work on.) From this information a color image is produced by adding Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow dye to the film (subtractive method via color couplers) or by the additive method of illuminating red, green, and blue dots on an LCD screen for instance. Printing can be done using various color methods.

 

The MM has a spectral response pretty similar to the M9's. The difference being that the M9 shoots through red, green, and blue filters simultaneously and records three separate images to reflect that. The MM's in camera processing is just applying a tone curve to the raw grey scale data.

 

The point of a tone curve is to take the possible wide range of values from a scene and compress them in a pleasing way to the smaller range of brightness values that an LCD screen or print can display. Alternatively, a tone curve can take a low contrast scene of few tone values and spread those tones out some in order to add contrast.

 

Since all sensors only record the equivalent of grey scale values, there is no color to deal with other than to produce it from the color separated files that have been shot through filters. Software (and firmware) is used on the three color separated files to somewhat simulate the colors of the original scene in a way that we hopefully find to be acceptable. (Otherwise we do our best in post processing to make it better.)

[Guest Ming Rider]

What got me thinking of this was that I fancied trying a B&W only workflow, just to see what it was like. I'd never shot JPEG's with the M8 before, so I set it to JPEG Fine, No Sharpening, B&W Color Saturation and HIGH Contrast.

 

Looking at the 2 pictures below, I was quite impressed with how well they stand up, taking into account their bad reputation and that the pic' of the drums is in low light and ISO 1250. Processing the Tree picture in SilverEfex and adding a touch of 'Wet Rocks', I could have sworn I'd taken it with the Leica CL, 40 Summicron and AGFA 400. (Sorry but the Forum won't allow me to upload the full size originals).

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[andybarton]

The M8 does produce very good b&w jpgs out of the box. Better than the M9, some say.

[Guest Ming Rider]

Uhmm, for some reason, the tree picture looks better in Adobe Bridge than it does on this forum in Firefox.

[andybarton]

Using a PC?

[Guest Ming Rider]

Using a PC?

 

Yes (he says sheepishly), I knew it would have something to do with the wonderful Windows.

 

Nice e-book by the way. I was instantly drawn to the train drivers. Nice pic'.

[andybarton]

Thank you

[Jeff S]

...What got me thinking of this was that I fancied trying a B&W only workflow...

 

You may have already said or known this, but you can of course 'see' and all b/w workflow by setting the camera to DNG + JPEG and then setting b/w for the preview in the menu. Of course the b/w you see on the screen will be JPEG, and the camera processing will be slowed by recording both. You then have the choice, in LR or whatever, to import and view as you prefer, color and/or b/w.

 

Jeff

[roguewave]

Ming Rider, just to flesh out the issue of the quality of RAW (DNG) files generated by the M8, I have found the M8 to be superior one converted to B&W using Photoshop. The MM is a quantum step beyond both the M8 & the M9 when you look at the enormous gamut of tones this new camera offers. In the end, TriX 400 is still the best B&W to my eyes.