help me start shooting on top flash

[Jaimiepeeters]

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Hi guys

 

Would ik make sense to use a 400TX film and Portra 400 and shoot it at 200 when using an on top flash?

 

How do you guys use your on top flash when using a non TTL M6 like I own?

 

I have an EF20 flash that I got with the Fuji X100. Would that be usable with the M6, if so.. how?

 

Tomorrow I'm able to pick up a Canon EF 430 or 420 at a friends house to borrow untill I decide what to buy. How would you use that flash on an M6?

[too old to care]

I am going out on a limb, but I doubt your flash will work with a standard center-pin, manual camera. I have a M6TTL, but use a standard flash on it when I use flash, which is seldom. It is a Metz 36C-2, inexpensive and fairly well made. I also have a couple off-camera flashes (Sunpak 544's) too.

 

That said, I have always reduced the ISO by a bit. I shoot ISO 400 at 300, and 200 at 125. I have done this for years because I would rather have a dense negative than one that is too thin to get the shadow details. My labs never complained about them either.

 

My flashes have an automatic setting that allows me to set the ISO, lens length, and f-stop that my camera is set at. I usually shoot at f4 with flash, it gives me a nice narrow depth of field and keeps the flash from having to work too much, like it would at a higher f-stop. They operate by reading the light bounced back to the camera and shut the flash off when needed. Not TTL, but at least it is reading the reflected light.

 

I also bounce flash when I can. Again, an automatic flash makes this easy, which it was not in days of non-auto flashes.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Wayne

[Jaimiepeeters]

That definitely helps. I can tell you that the EF20 does fire, but it's fully automatic and rebranded by Fuji for the X100 (its a Sunpak 2000 RD).

 

Tomorrow I'm borrowing a Canon 430 or a 420 ex from a buddy. I have yet to see what settings can be set on this flash. But I'm keeping in mind what you have explained!

[too old to care]

If it does fire than it can be used, but you will have to calculate the f-stop by the guide number since I doubt that it has its own sensor. It is probably firing at full power since it is not talking to the camera.

 

This is simple, just divide flash to subject distance into the guide number and set your camera to that f-stop. This is going back to the days when we all had to do that. If you are using bounce flash, open two or more f-stops depending upon the distance to the ceiling and reflective of it. That is, bright white ceilings require less compensation than dirty ones like many older churches have that I used to work in.

 

Let us know what you find out.

 

Wayne

[Jaimiepeeters]

could you give me an example of calculation if

 

distance is 3 meters

guide number is 20

iso is 200

[madNbad]

If you are seeing a lighting bolt inside the viewfinder it's an indication the flash is TTL capable. I don't believe any flashes other than a Metz with the proper SCA module or the SF-20/24 will work with the TTL. The flahes you mention should work in automatic mode using the sensor in the flash.

[too old to care]

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could you give me an example of calculation if

 

distance is 3 meters

guide number is 20

iso is 200

 

First, guide number will be different with each ISO. If you go from ISO 100 to 200 you need to cut the light hitting the film by 1/2, or 1 f-stop. Each f-stop cuts the light hitting the film by 50%, or doubles it, depending upon which way you go. That is why your f-stops do not make sense (1.4, 2, 2.8, etc….) They are the ratio of lens opening to focal length each time you either double, or cut the light hitting the film by 50%.

 

The guide number of the flash is the power of the flash. It is a number calculated by the lens f-stop times distance of the distance is from the flash to subject at each ISO. Each time you move further back you need to open the lens more to let in more light. Each time you move closer to the subject you need to close the lens to let in less light. It sounds complicated, but it is not.

 

Assume your ISO of 20 at ISO 200. Divide 20gn/3mtrs = f-stop of 6.66. There is no such thing in the natural exposure of film. So, pick the next best f-stop. That would be f-8 or f5.6. Most lenses allow you to go in the middle, so pick the middle click. If your lens does not allow that, pick the smallest f-stop (5.6) because this lets in more light ensuring that you do not get thin negatives.

 

Another example, say you move back to 6 meters, now the math would be 20gn/6mtrs = 3.3. Again, no such thing, so either pick 2.8 or 4 if you cannot go in the middle. I would pick 2.8 because it lets in more light.

 

Hope this helps.

 

W.

 

PS, go here. http://www.apug.org/forums/forum51/105302-want-use-off-camera-flash-mamiya-645-pro-tl.html

[too old to care]

If you are seeing a lighting bolt inside the viewfinder it's an indication the flash is TTL capable. I don't believe any flashes other than a Metz with the proper SCA module or the SF-20/24 will work with the TTL. The flahes you mention should work in automatic mode using the sensor in the flash.

 

True, but his camera is non TTL.

[madNbad]

Sorry, thought I saw a TTL in there somewhere...

[CalArts 99]

I believe the OP started the same thread and asked these very same questions just a few weeks ago, and got the same answers.....

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/238118-fuji-ef20-sunpak-2000-leica-m6.html

[Jaimiepeeters]

I believe the OP started the same thread and asked these very same questions just a few weeks ago, and got the same answers.....

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/238118-fuji-ef20-sunpak-2000-leica-m6.html

 

Really? So besides the EF20 question, where are the answers to shooting 400 at 200

and the answers to how to use flash on an m6?

[CalArts 99]

Really? So besides the EF20 question, where are the answers to shooting 400 at 200

and the answers to how to use flash on an m6?

 

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/2064522-post9.html

 

That was the same calculation that Wayne gave you.

 

GN is based on ISO 100..... you can do the math for any other ISO.

 

There were also answers by others about non-TTL use with a dedicated TTL flash made specifically for the Fuji camera. And how you can make distance/output/ISO measurements since the flash you're using has no auto settings for various apertures and without a scale based on distance and ISO (that's what we used to call an 'auto flash' but which is not the same as a TTL dedicated flash.)

 

Using any flash on any camera is the same principle. But modern TTL dedicated flash systems have made us not have to understand what is really going on and what is being measured. It's more helpful to have multiple auto settings with the scale for a non-TTL camera (such as the Metz 36-C2, an ideal auto non-TTL flash for the M6) than having no settings, but you said you also have a Sekonic that can measure electronic flash output. Therefore you can make your own measurements (and a chart for that flash) or use the basic calculations that I posted or that Wayne posted (same stuff.)

 

This is really basic flash use and there is a lot of info out there on using non-TTL flash. Spend a bit of time doing some reading and then the calculations and measuring with your meter to check them. You'll be an expert in no time, trust me.

 

And had the film been advancing properly in your camera, you would have had correctly exposed negatives since you said you measured the flash output using your Sekonic. Light is light; as long as the shutter is set to proper flash sync or below, then all you're measuring is proper aperture based on flash output and distance. Shoot a roll while writing down settings (distance/aperture/flash output setting) and look at the corresponding frames to make a judgement. Then you'll have your own chart based on that flash's output even if it has no settings at all.

 

This is the same thing that was being talked about in your previous thread.

 

Good luck.