wosim Posted September 18, 2012 Share #81 Posted September 18, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Here is an interesting discussion of the APO-Summicron-M 2.0 50mm Asph. MTF-curves by Mexican Photographer José Manuel Serrano Esparza, LEICA APO-SUMMICRON-M 50 MM F/2 ASPH: ANALYSIS OF MTF CURVES http://elrectanguloenlamano.blogspot...m-f2-asph.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 Hi wosim, Take a look here Thein Review of 50mm APO Summicron. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Bundestrainer Posted September 19, 2012 Share #82 Posted September 19, 2012 Can someone who tested the lens on the Photokina reports his or her findings, please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted September 19, 2012 Share #83 Posted September 19, 2012 Ming Thein, in his review, makes the following statement, which is very much to the point and for which I respect him highly: "I want to make one thing clear upfront: we’re already at the bleeding edge of diminishing returns with most lenses; your shooting discipline and rangefinder calibration are going to make far more difference to the pixel-level results than switching from the 50/1.4 ASPH to the 50 AA." A cool-headed cost-benefit analysis will tell you that far larger gains are to be made from refining your technique and checking your equipment, than from shelling out a fortune for an exotic optic. It is also clear that when shooting under conditions that are not absolutely optimal (where an old-fashioned view camera would be superior in any case) you will seldom be able to actually realize the full potential of e.g. a 50mm Summilux ASPH, let alone the 50mm Apo-Summicron. The picture itself does always reign supreme, not the technicalities of it. Would the Apo-Summicron have improved Henri Cartier-Bresson's early pictures, for instance? The old man from the Age of the 5cm Elmar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundestrainer Posted September 19, 2012 Share #84 Posted September 19, 2012 Lars, you're absolutely right. However, since Leica lenses normally get more expensive over time, I could also buy the Summicron 50 APO because it is likely that the lens keeps its value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted September 19, 2012 Share #85 Posted September 19, 2012 Thanks Lars, a searing voice of reason on this one. Its wonderful that Leica decided to explore what is possible, but I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to bother with this lens over an above a Zeiss Planar or regular Summicron.... even if it was less than half the price. For those who think this level of performance matters to their photography are well and truly barking up the wrong tree. There is no camera that can truly exploit this lens and, even if there were, you'd need to shoot in a very controlled manner, with a tripod. At that point, you'd be quids in buying a Pentax 645D and really seeing better results... For more mobile Leica M shooting, the hair splitting performance of the 50 AA just does not matter one iota. Sure, collect it, buy it 'just because' but lets not kid ourselves; it only offers what can largely not be seen. What can be seen is truly irrelevant when stacked up against just about any other paramater which contributes to a great photo. When I see an absolutely stunning photo taken with this lens, or some of the other people wet themselves over, I will take notice, but where the hell are they? I hate to say it, but its the same for the 50 lux asph too. Bloody amazing lens, but most people really cutting a path with their photography recognise that such diminishing returns are nice to have but largely irrelevant. This is why we tend to find out that amazing photos we admire are taken on run of the mill equipment and cat photos/vintage rallies/re-enactment portraits are used to exemplify the wonderful x factor of the latest masterpeice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gylee Posted September 23, 2012 Share #86 Posted September 23, 2012 I have not posted here for a long time but spent some time playing with this lens today courtesy of Leica Hong Kong. I was prepared to say "Pfui- how much for a 50mm Summicron?". Wrong. This lens is noticeably sharper and renders better than any lens I have ever seen. Period. You can even see it on the review screen. You can see it straight out of the camera in JPEGs. It is real world sharpness. Not theoretical sharpness. In fact for people, you might even say it is too sharp... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/180267-thein-review-of-50mm-apo-summicron/?do=findComment&comment=2122586'>More sharing options...
insomnia Posted September 23, 2012 Share #87 Posted September 23, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I didn't look at all of them, but most of the pictures you uploaded on flickr aren't sharp in original resolution. And seeing the sharpness on review screen... oh please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted September 23, 2012 Share #88 Posted September 23, 2012 I'm sure it is sharp, but those who have done the tests suggest quite strongly that a lot of the time that sharpness is not in evidence when shooting under less than controlled circumstances. When you nail everything down, shoot wide open and pixel peep, it is there. Just. The posted photos are no different to those we would expect to see from a $200 lens. As for seeing it staring at you on the low resolution review screen of current Leica digital M, pigs will fly first. I have not posted here for a long time but spent some time playing with this lens today courtesy of Leica Hong Kong. I was prepared to say "Pfui- how much for a 50mm Summicron?". Wrong. This lens is noticeably sharper and renders better than any lens I have ever seen. Period. You can even see it on the review screen. You can see it straight out of the camera in JPEGs. It is real world sharpness. Not theoretical sharpness. In fact for people, you might even say it is too sharp... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gylee Posted September 23, 2012 Share #89 Posted September 23, 2012 Guys - look fair enough. People move, these were shot wide open. I accept that this bears out much of what you might say about the difference between this lens and another not being ascertainable in the real world and I should have been more careful with what I posted. It was sloppy. I still stand by what I say in relation to it being very obvious which photos were taken with this lens when put side by side with other 50s and this was not just my impression, and this impression was on the basis that the shots looked perceivably sharper. I am also telling you it was possible to ascertain this from the review screen and whether this was perceived sharpness, actual sharpness or voodoo magic, it was quite evident. And again, not just to me. It was also often unflattering to people. Trust me, I thought the idea of this lens was ridiculous. I still think the price is absurd. However, there is something to it. Take a look at the one of the clipper. The full size JPEGs are on Flickr. Look at the hair, look at the blade edges, look at the pitting in the chrome, look at the rust on the spring. Follow the trail of hair into the bottom left of the frame. (Yes, yes, you can also look at the blown highlight). If you have a $200 lens that has an M mount, shoots that sharp wide open and is capable of rendering that degree of fine detail in a straight out of the camera JPEG, I will cheerfully buy it from you at full retail... I am also prepared to make an offer on the flying pig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomasis7 Posted September 23, 2012 Share #90 Posted September 23, 2012 gylee opened can of worms, oppps honestly one could that with 1000 dollar Cron r Planar. Not every situation you shot at 1/2000 sec. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billo101 Posted September 23, 2012 Share #91 Posted September 23, 2012 50AA seems like a great lens, but too expensive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted September 24, 2012 Share #92 Posted September 24, 2012 It seems to be a general truth in matters technological that the last ten percent cost as much as the previous ninety, and the last percent costs as much as the preceding ninety-nine. So I am perfectly happy thank you with a 99% lens such as the 50mm Summilux ASPH, if it has more definition than I can normally use, all the definition I can realise under ideal circumstances, and also has twice the speed – and is half the price. The old man from the Age of Reason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted September 24, 2012 Share #93 Posted September 24, 2012 Lets not forget Leica set out to create THE BEST 50mm. It did so at a cost. I think it's safe to say that the lens is for those that want that extra image quality. There really are people that want that. Beyond diminishing returns which mean nothing. I am potentially one of those people and I will wait till the lens is out properly and compare it with the current summicron and summilux and make my mind up then. From the few images I have seen already though, it looks really good and I'm quite excited to see how it turns out. The lens is also about the future. Higher resolution and fidelity for higher Mega Pixel cameras and higher resolution cameras such as the MM. Not that it should be a determining factor for the buyer, but Im sure it is for Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted September 24, 2012 Share #94 Posted September 24, 2012 Lets not forget Leica set out to create THE BEST 50mm. It did so at a cost. I think it's safe to say that the lens is for those that want that extra image quality. There really are people that want that. Beyond diminishing returns which mean nothing. I am potentially one of those people and I will wait till the lens is out properly and compare it with the current summicron and summilux and make my mind up then. From the few images I have seen already though, it looks really good and I'm quite excited to see how it turns out. The lens is also about the future. Higher resolution and fidelity for higher Mega Pixel cameras and higher resolution cameras such as the MM. Not that it should be a determining factor for the buyer, but Im sure it is for Leica. I did try it for a few shots at Leica Mayfair, I was very impressed and didn't want to be. I could never justify, not even close, but if I could I would Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyedward Posted September 24, 2012 Share #95 Posted September 24, 2012 I ordered this lens on the assumption that its image quality would be as close to my 100/2,8 elmarit-r as possible for a 50. Ming Thein described the 50 Apo IQ being "transparent" and basically WYSIWYG, which is how I describe by elmarit. Since ordering the 50 Apo I have come to question whether the difference in IQ at f2 will be significantly better than the 50 lux, which reminded me of Ming mentioning that the law of diminishing returns analogy applies to the Apo. Another factor against it is that both 50 and 35 luxes together cost not too much more than the 50 Apo alone. I intend to own a 35 lux sooner or later anyway. The extra stop of the 50 lux would be of no benefit to me as I'm not a fan of soft-ish wide-open images. I may not get the opportunity to purchase this lens again, so I will not cancel my order. For people who criticise the price of this lens, it is what it is, and other 50mm lenses are still available Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundestrainer Posted September 24, 2012 Share #96 Posted September 24, 2012 Why do you think you might not get the opportunity to purchase this lens again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyedward Posted September 24, 2012 Share #97 Posted September 24, 2012 Why do you think you might not get the opportunity to purchase this lens again? Because of its high cost! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundestrainer Posted September 24, 2012 Share #98 Posted September 24, 2012 I think the price will be the same next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larcomb Posted September 24, 2012 Share #99 Posted September 24, 2012 Here is an interesting discussion of the APO-Summicron-M 2.0 50mm Asph. MTF-curves by Mexican Photographer José Manuel Serrano Esparza, LEICA APO-SUMMICRON-M 50 MM F/2 ASPH: ANALYSIS OF MTF CURVES http://elrectanguloenlamano.blogspot...m-f2-asph.html I am curious why it is more expensive than the Summilux, which is also supposed to be an APO lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted September 24, 2012 Share #100 Posted September 24, 2012 I am curious why it is more expensive than the Summilux, which is also supposed to be an APO lens. Well, not officially. That is, not by Leica standards, which are quite stringent. I think most other manufacturers would not only dub the Summilux but also several other Leica lenses 'apochromatic'. Very much of the manufacturing cost of both Leica lenses and cameras are the price of rigorous quality control, continuously during the whole assembly process. The 50mm Apo-Summicron must clearly be put together under the most stringent procedures possible, close to the limits of the doable. But Herr Kaufmann will probably want to make some money on it too, even if I suspect that this is not very high on Herr Karbe's agenda. All this is quite understandable, but please count me out – for the reasons I have already given. That is a decision I make without the slightest tinge of regret, because to me, any other would be unreasonable. The old man from the Kodachrome Age Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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