Is it time to stop regarding film as the benchmark for B&W?

[AlanG]

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We'd come full circle if only the Amish had invented trig points. I bet early surveyors used horses and quill pens.

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[luigi bertolotti]

OK. I disagree with this because I don't think the medium itself is a limitation to the creative process in the way you suggest.

Naturally a Stone Age man was unable to write a piano sonata because the piano itself was aeons away, but let's shift the analogy to something closer to the discussion regarding film and digital image capture: suppose that Michelangelo had PaintShop Pro instead of plaster and pigments - would it have made him a better artist? Would the Sistine Chapel ceiling be better as a neon installation, or an interactive projection controlled by a collaborative Facebook application?

 

I simply don't see that Sally Mann would feel that capturing her images with a Canon 5D would give her "BROADER capabilty to exploit her sentiment, her feelings, her ways to interprete reality"

 

I understand your point... and agree that medium is not to be seen as limitation , but it can be an incitement...a "facilitator" of the creative process... leading to artwork that could be "new" and not at a lower level than the historical masters ; I also agree that Michelangelo wouldn't have been a better artist with Paintshop etc... but the question that I pose to myself is this : supposed that a creator with the stature of Michelangelo is alive now (not probable, but could happen) ... what kind of work could he create with the tools that nowadays are available ? That's, for me, is an intriguing question... because many times I have the impression that we still have to wait (and not only in photography) for some artist that really find the way to exploit, in general, the potentials that technology has put in the hands of men... technology has been an impressive facilitator for the everyday's life and for the business... to say, for "material" issues... when will we see it as a gift for spirit ? Or will we ever see this in this declination ? Or is it impossible by principle, being technology the negation of spirit ?

 

(too far-going considerations... let's stop here... )

[andybarton]

We'd come full circle if only the Amish had invented trig points. I bet early surveyors used horses and quill pens.

 

The first surveyors were probably Babelonians, or similar. Those towers and pyramids didn't build themselves

 

I have seen a surveyor's dimension book from 1785 that is identical in its layout and function as those used today

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000SHOTTI/ref=asc_df_B000SHOTTI8011426?smid=A1PGDVVR8ZMA04&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B000SHOTTI

[Guest Ming Rider]

Order, order.

 

As the OP of this thread and therefore Lord of said manor, I would like to point out to the assembled Surfs, Peasants, Servants and Concubines that, whether you choose to use benchmark, point of reference, TBM, control etc, they all mean the same bl**dy thing!!

 

Now let's put such trivialities behind us and get back to the matter in hand, ie. the original question (and the consumption of large amounts of ale, a peculiar new snack enclosed between 2 pieces of bread, the raping of wenches and pillaging).

[pico]

We'd come full circle if only the Amish had invented trig points. I bet early surveyors used horses and quill pens.

 

Chain of rods. Long ago I assisted with such a survey in rural Arkansas, shooting across steep drops in some places. When a point was finalized, we made a pyramid of stones. We found there were previous marking points, and somehow we came within a couple feet of old ones.

[Guest Ming Rider]

. . . pyramids didn't build themselves

 

Everyone knows they were built by the aliens maaan.

[AlanG]

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The first surveyors were probably Babelonians, or similar. Those towers and pyramids didn't build themselves

 

I have seen a surveyor's dimension book from 1785 that is identical in its layout and function as those used today.

 

Chain of rods. Long ago I assisted with such a survey in rural Arkansas, shooting across steep drops in some places. When a point was finalized, we made a pyramid of stones. We found there were previous marking points, and somehow we came within a couple feet of old ones.

 

 

This is all great to know but I was simply hoping we could get back on subject and talk about manual gear boxes.

[Guest Ming Rider]

Chain of rods.

 

Where the term Chain Boy comes from. No it's not something kinky, a Chain Boy is still in use today, meaning a Surveyors Assistant (or poorly paid lout). I was one in my teens on a Bridge contract.

[pico]

Order, order. [...] Now let's put such trivialities behind us and get back to the matter in hand, ie. the original question (and the consumption of large amounts of ale, a peculiar new snack enclosed between 2 pieces of bread, the raping of wenches and pillaging).

 

Drift we must! So what's the benchmark for beer?

[Guest Ming Rider]

This is all great to know but I was simply hoping we could get back on subject and talk about manual gear boxes.

 

Now you're talking. Are you a Helical or Straight-Cut kinda guy?

[Guest Ming Rider]

Drift we must! So what's the benchmark for beer?

 

Guiness Extra Cold, without a doubt. Though not strictly a beer, bending of the truth is an everyday fact of life.

[andybarton]

Where the term Chain Boy comes from. No it's not something kinky, a Chain Boy is still in use today, meaning a Surveyors Assistant (or poorly paid lout). I was one in my teens on a Bridge contract.

 

Me too... on a Heathrow Extension contract

[andybarton]

Drift we must! So what's the benchmark for beer?

 

Brakspear's Ordinary Bitter - without question.

[Guest Ming Rider]

Me too... on a Heathrow Extension contract

 

Blimey, small world. How did you find it?

 

For me it entailed sitting in a freezing portacabin, arguing with the other 'chainies', inventing new 'benchmarks' for testing the amplitude of bottom burps, and of course being on call to whichever surveyor stuck his head round the door.

 

Don't they know WE built that bridge dammit !!!

[AlanG]

Now you're talking. Are you a Helical or Straight-Cut kinda guy?

 

Campagnolo Super Record.

[Guest Ming Rider]

Campagnolo Super Record.

 

Ahhh, when you said gearbox I thought you meant a northern real man's meat, potato and beer reliant robin gearbox, not a southern lardy dardy, namby pamby, shandy drinking push bike gearbox

 

I was getting my Syncromesh mixed up with my Shimano.

 

And continuing the subject of benchmarks, surely 'push bike' should be resigned to the bin as well (the description, not the transport)?

[bill]

Getrag, straight-cut please like on my BMW 2000CS. And less of the Southern Shandy Drinking Pooftah thank you kindly

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[AlanG]

Ahhh, when you said gearbox I thought you meant a northern real man's meat, potato and beer reliant robin gearbox, not a southern lardy dardy, namby pamby, shandy drinking push bike gearbox

 

I was getting my Syncromesh mixed up with my Shimano.

 

And continuing the subject of benchmarks, surely 'push bike' should be resigned to the bin as well (the description, not the transport)?

 

If you change the title to benchmark for BMW you might want to say ZF gearbox.

 

My idea of a fountain pen...

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Guest Ming Rider]

Wow, nice piece of engineering in wonderful condition. Did you restore it (unless it's new, in which case I've put my foot in it)? Just it looks like proper engineering the way it used to be, not this lardy dardy . . .

[AlanG]

Wow, nice piece of engineering in wonderful condition. Did you restore it (unless it's new, in which case I've put my foot in it)? Just it looks like proper engineering the way it used to be, not this lardy dardy . . .

 

We may as well jump completely off track at this point since who cares about the benchmark for b/w photos?

 

The frame is aluminum but tubes have thick walls and are sized like steel. It is about 30 years old but was in good shape. ALAN is an Italian company and made some of the earlies aluminum frames and also early carbon fiber frames. Since my name is Alan I had to have an ALAN bike. I polished up the aluminum and some of the components. I found all of the parts at a large bike swap. The shifters are much more recent than the frame so purists would not go for this, but I wanted fairly modern shifters. (Sort of like once you are used to F1 paddle shifters it is hard to go back to a stick.) Modern bikes are pretty similar but you can get them in all kinds of material including wood, bamboo, aluminum, steel, carbon fiber, titanium and with any style of components. Basic bike technology has not changed much but has become more refined and much lighter.

 

This company makes wooden bikes that are works of art. I'd be afraid to ride one and already have several bikes. These should appeal to Leica owners. You can spend more than $15,000 for a bike and a few thousand more on shoes, clothing, etc. If you are serious you'll want a racing road bike, a trainer, a time trial bike, maybe a mountain bike too. A spare set of racing wheels can set you back $8,000.

 

Cycling explained:

 

Elisabeth's R4, birch, purpleheart, Vancouver BC - Gallery: R4 Pursuit - Renovo Hardwood Bicycles

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