Expodisc

[Paul Verrips]

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I bought an expodisk for better whitebalance. I'm impresed by the results and the easy way of working with it.

 

I love this tool right now and i can advice it to everyone who wants better whitebalance results.

 

Also better results with higher iso when using the expodisc.

[40mm f/2]

I use one for some time and regret it when I forgot to take one with me like recently taking pictures of red rock formations where auto white balance was all over the place and mostly made brown rocks. Setting manual white balance is much less work than trying to do it in post processing.

[dave_d]

Even better is the X-rite color checker passport

: X-Rite: Get exactly the color you need, every time, anywhere in the world.

[swamiji]

I have both the Color Checker and the Expodisc. While the little squares on the Color Checker makes it nice to tweek the WB in post, I find it's grey card too small when I am out and about. Where as the Expodisc, just works.

[nikau]

I regard the Expdisc as an essential accessory for my M8!

[dave_d]

I have both the Color Checker and the Expodisc. While the little squares on the Color Checker makes it nice to tweek the WB in post, I find it's grey card too small when I am out and about. Where as the Expodisc, just works.

 

Are you using the Passport with the X-rite software that works as a Lightroom plug-n? The software finds the little squares for you and corrects for all colors. It even allows you to create a camera calibration. It is a slick tool.

[swamiji]

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Are you using the Passport with the X-rite software that works as a Lightroom plug-n? The software finds the little squares for you and corrects for all colors. It even allows you to create a camera calibration. It is a slick tool.

 

Yes, I even used it to create a camera profile. I also used it to adjust the WB using the warm/cooling squares. The thing is, with an Expodisc, it right in camera, so any modifications in post are unnecessary.

 

My biggest problem with the X-rite Passport software, is it only produces an Adobe profile. It does not produce anything that woks with the OS or other software like C1. They don't produce any software that produces the complete end to end color profiles using ICC profiles. It's still a bit of mix and match.

[lars_bergquist]

An additional advantage of the Expodisc is that it can change your camera's built in reflected-light meter into an incident meter. And that meter has until now been an even more essential accessory.

 

The old man from the Selenium Age

[dave_d]

Yes, I even used it to create a camera profile. I also used it to adjust the WB using the warm/cooling squares. The thing is, with an Expodisc, it right in camera, so any modifications in post are unnecessary.

 

My biggest problem with the X-rite Passport software, is it only produces an Adobe profile. It does not produce anything that woks with the OS or other software like C1. They don't produce any software that produces the complete end to end color profiles using ICC profiles. It's still a bit of mix and match.

 

Swamiji,

 

I have not used the expo disc so your experience with both is appreciated. Do you find the color reproduction with either to be more accurate? I would think that the Expo disc would be greatly influenced by reflected colors in the environment without the ability to correct for all colors.

 

I am only using Adobe products in my workflow so I haven't experienced the compatibility issues you have.

 

Regards,

Dave

[k-hawinkler]

An additional advantage of the Expodisc is that it can change your camera's built in reflected-light meter into an incident meter. And that meter has until now been an even more essential accessory.

 

The old man from the Selenium Age

 

 

How do you take advantage of that with the M9?

Thanks.

[swamiji]

Swamiji,

 

I have not used the expo disc so your experience with both is appreciated. Do you find the color reproduction with either to be more accurate? I would think that the Expo disc would be greatly influenced by reflected colors in the environment without the ability to correct for all colors.

 

I am only using Adobe products in my workflow so I haven't experienced the compatibility issues you have.

 

Regards,

Dave

 

All Manual White Balance products are influenced by reflected light, thats the point, and limitation of doing a Manual W/B. I find using a small grey card often makes it difficult to get a good M W/B because I am not shooting at the same location as I need to get the camera to do a M W/B. You need to fill a certain percentage of the field of view for the camera to register the M W/B, Like wise by moving the reflective W/B card to the camera you do not get the same W/B as if it was near the subject. The Expdisc does away with this limitation as you do a M W/B with your lens pointing in the same direction as the subject, from your shooting location, thus getting a W/B of the entire scene. Is this perfect, no. Correct W/B is always a struggle, but I find it more accurate than using a reflective surface to do a M W/B.

 

Do you ever print your photographs? If you do then you are using a Non-Adobe product for printing. The last time I checked Adobe does no longer makes printer drivers. Canon/Epson/Apple/Windows printer drivers all use ICC profiles for their output. If you use... Illford paper you download their ICC profile for your printer and paper combination. The ColorMunki attempts to allow you to create profiles ICC profiles, but the passport does not....

[dave_d]

Swamiji,

 

Thanks for your input. I find that the X-rite Color checker does a fine job for my needs was curious it compared to the Expo Disc. As far as printing my photos, I send them out to be printed. I export my files from Adobe Lightroom with with the X-Rite Passport color corrections applied to the image so it doesn't matter what software is used or what is used to print as long as the lab has done their job and profiled their printer.

[lars_bergquist]

How do you take advantage of that with the M9?

Thanks.

 

Very simple. Like with a hand meter for incident light (you know, with that little opal hemisphere in front of the sensor cell) you aim the light receptor, in this case the camera with the disc in front of the lens, towards the light, that is, normally at 180 degrees from your shooting direction. Remember you are measuring the light that is falling on the subject, not the light that is reflected from it.

 

Ideally, as in a studio or on a movie set, you measure the light from the position of the subject, tucking your Seconic Studio Deluxe under the leading lady's chin. But out of doors, with a main light (the sun) at infinity, you can measure it from where you are standing, as long as nothing is shading the light ot otherwise modifying it.

 

With your M9 on manual metering, adjust aperture/speed until the round center diode is lit, and you are home free. The metered exposure will perfectly nail the maximum diffuse highlight. All else, including the mythical Zone V, will follow automatically. And the shadows will get the maximum exposure they can have without blowing the highlights.

 

The old man from the Selenium Age

[k-hawinkler]

Very simple. Like with a hand meter for incident light (you know, with that little opal hemisphere in front of the sensor cell) you aim the light receptor, in this case the camera with the disc in front of the lens, towards the light, that is, normally at 180 degrees from your shooting direction. Remember you are measuring the light that is falling on the subject, not the light that is reflected from it.

 

Ideally, as in a studio or on a movie set, you measure the light from the position of the subject, tucking your Seconic Studio Deluxe under the leading lady's chin. But out of doors, with a main light (the sun) at infinity, you can measure it from where you are standing, as long as nothing is shading the light ot otherwise modifying it.

With your M9 on manual metering, adjust aperture/speed until the round center diode is lit, and you are home free. The metered exposure will perfectly nail the maximum diffuse highlight. All else, including the mythical Zone V, will follow automatically. And the shadows will get the maximum exposure they can have without blowing the highlights.

The old man from the Selenium Age

 

 

Hi Lars,

 

Many thanks indeed.

 

I am already familiar with the first part of your description as a way to set Manual WB in the M9.

So after I have done that, I will then select an aperture and ISO value and follow your description that I highlighted in blue.

From then on, as long as the lighting doesn't change, I can fire away, concentrating on composition and focus. NIce.

 

I will try this next and compare with the exposure of the M9 in A-mode.

Another useful comparison would be with my SEKONIC light meter.

It can measure incident and reflected light.

 

Thanks again for your help.

[LeicaBraz]

More of a general question:

It is indeed recommended that the photograph you take has accounted for all the necessary adjustments in camera so that post-processing is not necessary. That's perfectly fine as far as exposure (mainly) is concerned so that your highlights are not blown, the shadows have detail etc.

But why worry so much about white balance? Does getting the correct WB when shooting affect the other variables?

I can say that for me the auto WB of the M9 is not nice and have a preset I use to change it to my satisfaction, thereafter making whatever additional adjustments needed or desired. ThusI shoot all the time with WB set on auto and check just for the

histogram.

Of course this works for me since I shoot RAW and not Jpegs.

 

So what is the big advantage of having the correct WB set in camera?

 

Thanks

[swamiji]

So what is the big advantage of having the correct WB set in camera?

 

 

It's my observation that the best image file is one that has had little or no post processing. Doing a Manual White Balance, to my mind, creates a more accurate color, and provides a better image, since it's contained in the "DNG", thus little need for post processing. Doing WB in post often relies on your memory, and is done on the JPEG/TIFF/etc.

[40mm f/2]

How does white balance work in DNG? Are WB data an addition to the raw files or the raw file has in each channel the WB already applied. In the first case it should not matter in terms of DR whether one corrects in post (only different correction) but in the later case it would add an additional correction.

[mija1789]

How does white balance work in DNG? Are WB data an addition to the raw files or the raw file has in each channel the WB already applied. In the first case it should not matter in terms of DR whether one corrects in post (only different correction) but in the later case it would add an additional correction.

 

By definition, a raw file is ... raw. Or, in other words, there are no corrections nor calculations made at the file level. Everything is computed afterwards by the derawtisation engine.

So, the WB recorded by the camera is stored in the raw file together with other pieces of information for latter use by the computer.

[swamiji]

By definition, a raw file is ... raw. Or, in other words, there are no corrections nor calculations made at the file level. Everything is computed afterwards by the derawtisation engine.

So, the WB recorded by the camera is stored in the raw file together with other pieces of information for latter use by the computer.

 

Sorry to say this is incorrect. There is always processing done in camera. The concept of a True RAW file has become a practical impossibility. On top of that the M9 produces a DNG file which contains processed RAW data, but Adobe no longer conceders a DNG a RAW file, and modifies it.

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[mija1789]

Sorry to say this is incorrect. There is always processing done in camera. The concept of a True RAW file has become a practical impossibility.

 

Could you please elaborate on this statement?

Indeed, I have disassembled uncompressed raw files from Nikon and besides various bits of information (aperture, speed, date and time, lens type, WB, ...) proprietary or not, the luminance information is there unprocessed.

I still have to do the exercise for Leica. So I am curious and anxious to learn what kind of processing is done to their raw files (besides rendering on the back screen or compression)?