stevelap Posted May 11, 2012 Share #301 Posted May 11, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) ..............you're not an official spokesman, so your 'hints' were not considered to carry more weight than any other forum pundits................ From your earlier (churlish) post I see that your enthusiasm for Michael is well under control. But you know what he does for a living so, 'official' or not, his comments should perhaps carry a little more weight. Up to you of course, if you choose not to take a hint...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 Hi stevelap, Take a look here Leica Event May 10th – Live Coverage. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest Posted May 11, 2012 Share #302 Posted May 11, 2012 ... several hints given (by me, among others) that the M10 was still a couple of months away. Aha! So you are saying here now, the M10 will be presented and available in a couple of months. As the M9 was available after the 9/9/09 and the Monochrome at this moment. This is a clear statement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted May 11, 2012 Share #303 Posted May 11, 2012 Maybe they did maybe they didn't but all the same after the M9 on 09/09/09 May the 10th just seemed a bit to obvious and the might have just wanted to get us excited. Personally I think they should have made the date the 11th of may and then there would have been none of this date speculation. One day an M10 will appear maybe Photokina, maybe 10/5/13, who knows!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted May 11, 2012 Share #304 Posted May 11, 2012 From your earlier (churlish) post I see that your enthusiasm for Michael is well under control. But you know what he does for a living so, 'official' or not, his comments should perhaps carry a little more weight. Up to you of course, if you choose not to take a hint...... I assumed that he would have signed an NDA that disallowed any meaningful 'hints'. Anyway - churlish - I didn't realize that the forum always had to be a universal 'love-in'. Michael is undoubtedly a respected expert on Leica matters - I personally lost my respect for his opinions based on the grounds I wrote about in my previous post. As far as I know, I'm allowed my own opinions - even about the forum's 'celebrities'. As I said, there are 364 days that Leica could have chosen to not announce the M10. I'm flabbergasted that anyone can think that the timing of yesterday's event was anything other than an enormously foolish disaster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpattison Posted May 11, 2012 Share #305 Posted May 11, 2012 So who is going to be the first M9-M user to shoot three images of the same subject, through a red, green, and blue filter, and then combining them to create a colour image? John Making Color Images from Prokudin-Gorskii's Negatives - The Empire That Was Russia: The Prokudin-Gorskii PhotographicRecord Recreated (A Library of Congress Exhibition) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpattison Posted May 11, 2012 Share #306 Posted May 11, 2012 I think the M10 may be based on this... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/2012/05/leica-m9-p-edition-hermes/ with the led framelines. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sp12 Posted May 11, 2012 Share #307 Posted May 11, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) There is absolutely no importance of such a thing as value of ownership for some users of Leica cameras - the group of these users possibly is dwindling in size, but in fact it is the group of users, ho buy an M, because of it's extraordinary simplicity, speed of use and refined design, making quick working easy. It's not possibly, it's definitely. Look at all the limited edition Leicas and how they sell out instantly, while the very capable but not flashy summarits sit (according to my dealer) for months. This group of users simply don't care, if this camera has a higher resolution screen or not, they might even simply don't care, if it has a bracketing function,different JPG profiles or programable user banks. I think this is more the luddite film-shooter group than the group that likes the simplicity. You might have guessed, I am within this group of users. I don't use Leica cameras, putting up with paying a lot more money for a digital body, than I would do with other manufacturers and having less features, because it is branded as a Leica and people might look at me, but I do, as I learned to love the philosophy of how a Leica M makes you shoot. You can shoot with an M philosophy with any camera tbh. You have two (2) eyes. It's just a camera. Regarding shooting fast lenses on a rangefinder. It is impossibly and unnecessary, to describe or even proof to an unknown person, just how perfect the Leica rangefinder works with super fast lenses - just how much better even, when comparing it to any ground glass based system around - be it manual focus or auto focus. I'm sorry but your opinion is wrong, the rangefinder is by necessity less accurate and open to more 'errors' than a good ground glass system. It's not 100%, but it's certainly also not just 70 %. If you look at the acuity of the human eye the Noctilux is just about at 68% accuracy focusing wide open with "acceptable DoF", which is below what a rebel gives. Certainly not comparable to a high-end AF system. For the fun of it, I have pretty bad eye sight, even had to teach myself, to become a left eye shooter, as the right eye didn't permit the needed accuracy of shooting fast lenses comfortably anymore. What about those of us with two eyes that aren't perfect? Leave Leica forever? How will I show my cash? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted May 11, 2012 Share #308 Posted May 11, 2012 I would like to discuss the rumor mill... In the weeks and days leading up to this event nearly every product and feature was leaked. We first started hearing about a monochrome only M perhaps a month or so ago, and as the weeks rolled on more and more details emerged, as well as information about the X2 and new 50 Summicron. Obviously people with direct knowledge of these products and their specifications are leaking them to the blogosphere. In contrast what was never leaked was any accurate pricing information. Just a few days ago it was being rumorported that the new X2 would be $3000 (incorrect by $1000 too high), that the M9-M would be $8500-$9000 (incorrect by $500-$1000 too high) and that the new 50 Summicron would be $3300 (almost $4000 below the actual price of $7195). This should probably give Leica some relief that these leaks are probably not coming from someone high up in the organization with detailed marketing and financial plans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted May 11, 2012 Share #309 Posted May 11, 2012 In the weeks and days leading up to this event nearly every product and feature was leaked. We first started hearing about a monochrome only M perhaps a month or so ago, and as the weeks rolled on more and more details emerged, as well as information about the X2 and new 50 Summicron. Obviously people with direct knowledge of these products and their specifications are leaking them to the blogosphere. Actually the black and white rumour had started spreading even earlier. In March there was a rumour about a display-less monochrome M that had me wondering what the source might have been – I knew there was a monochrome M since I held one in my hands but quite obviously it sported a display. I think that rumour was made out of full cloth and just incidentally true in part. Later rumours were closer to the truth and obviously based on leaked information. I tend to suspect dealers, as a rule, but I don’t have any proof of that. In contrast what was never leaked was any accurate pricing information. Just a few days ago it was being rumorported that the new X2 would be $3000 (incorrect by $1000 too high), that the M9-M would be $8500-$9000 (incorrect by $500-$1000 too high) and that the new 50 Summicron would be $3300 (almost $4000 below the actual price of $7195). This should probably give Leica some relief that these leaks are probably not coming from someone high up in the organization with detailed marketing and financial plans. I didn’t know about pricing either – I knew the M Monochrom would be somewhat more expensive than the regular M9, but that was that. This is handled strictly on a ‘need to know’ basis: I got a prerelease M Monochrom and all the technical specs I needed as I was going to write about it, but I knew much less about the other projects (‘Felix’ – the X2 – and ‘Hamburg’ – the new Summicron) as it wasn’t my business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2012 Share #310 Posted May 11, 2012 You never know. Initial plan when the event was anounced could have been to have some prototypes for this event and the product ready and available in substantial numbers at the Fotokina. It is as it is. So for now a test of the spending power and a way to see all M9-P sold, customers expecting another price hike for the M10. Don't forget that there are lines for the D800&5D3, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted May 11, 2012 Share #311 Posted May 11, 2012 You never know. Initial plan when the event was anounced could have been to have some prototypes for this event and the product ready and available in substantial numbers at the Fotokina. To steal the show of the products actually introduced and to destroy all the suspense usually building up in the months and weeks before photokina? Doesn’t make any sense, at least to me. Again: There is nothing to suggest that the May 10 event ever had anything to do with the M10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted May 11, 2012 Share #312 Posted May 11, 2012 Actually the black and white rumour had started spreading even earlier. In March there was a rumour about a display-less monochrome M that had me wondering what the source might have been – I knew there was a monochrome M since I held one in my hands but quite obviously it sported a display... Michael I am curious about the timing of the release of the prototypes. I see from Jonathan Slack's review that he received his M9-M immediately before leaving for China, and according to his images that was at the end of March, barely six weeks ago. Does Leica only rely on professional photographers for reviews and samples, or are some included in the design and field trials process? With Photokina still over four months away it's seem possible that any new cameras might not have left the nest yet, so to speak. In light of the recall of the 21 Super Elmar M and SD card problems I'm not sure that is a wise strategy, if in fact my assumptions are correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Sharp Posted May 11, 2012 Share #313 Posted May 11, 2012 To steal the show of the products actually introduced and to destroy all the suspense usually building up in the months and weeks before photokina? Doesn’t make any sense, at least to me. Again: There is nothing to suggest that the May 10 event ever had anything to do with the M10. To satisfy all the numerologists out there: S-Adapter H M Monochrom V-Lux 40 X2 50 mm f/2 5 x CS-lenses adds up to 10 new products - all happy now? Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted May 11, 2012 Share #314 Posted May 11, 2012 I see from Jonathan Slack's review that he received his M9-M immediately before leaving for China, and according to his images that was at the end of March, barely six weeks ago. That would have been the time when the final (or nearly final) version of the firmware was released. Does Leica only rely on professional photographers for reviews and samples, or are some included in the design and field trials process? Frankly I don’t know but I suppose it’s the former. With Photokina still over four months away it's seem possible that any new cameras might not have left the nest yet, so to speak. In light of the recall of the 21 Super Elmar M and SD card problems I'm not sure that is a wise strategy, if in fact my assumptions are correct. They probably are. But whatever you do there can always be some issue everyone managed to miss. Take Canon’s recent issues with light leaking from the display into the body – easily fixed with a piece of black tape in the right place but also easy to miss as the issue only crops up under quite specific conditions. And prior to its release, photographers completely missed the IR issue their M8 had, even when in retrospect the magenta cast must have been staring at them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Sharp Posted May 11, 2012 Share #315 Posted May 11, 2012 To satisfy all the numerologists out there: S-Adapter H M Monochrom V-Lux 40 X2 50 mm f/2 5 x CS-lenses adds up to 10 new products - all happy now? Cheers Damn these stupid numbers - there was that ridiculous special edition as well. But I gather the party finished on May 11, so it it still works out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted May 11, 2012 Share #316 Posted May 11, 2012 To steal the show of the products actually introduced and to destroy all the suspense usually building up in the months and weeks before photokina? Doesn’t make any sense, at least to me. Again: There is nothing to suggest that the May 10 event ever had anything to do with the M10. Yes there is, the precedent set by Leica announcing the M9 on 9/9/9. That would indeed lead people to suspect that May 10 = M10. You really can't understand that? Really? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted May 11, 2012 Share #317 Posted May 11, 2012 Yes there is, the precedent set by Leica announcing the M9 on 9/9/9. That would indeed lead people to suspect that May 10 = M10. You really can't understand that? Really? What about the fallacy of generalizing from a single data point don’t you understand? I’ve said time and again that 9/9/9 was a singular incident and shouldn’t be generalized and still some people did just that. And now that they are proven wrong they still insist they were right; surely Leica must have changed their plans. <sigh> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted May 11, 2012 Share #318 Posted May 11, 2012 What about the fallacy of generalizing from a single data point don’t you understand? I’ve said time and again that 9/9/9 was a singular incident and shouldn’t be generalized and still some people did just that. And now that they are proven wrong they still insist they were right; surely Leica must have changed their plans. <sigh> Sorry but someone should have at least pointed out to Leica what the date could imply. A single incident maybe but that's what precedent means. Anyway you have stated elsewhere that the M10 is due in a couple of months. That's going to do M9 sales a favour! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted May 11, 2012 Share #319 Posted May 11, 2012 Come on James, I think Michael said in an earlier post that 9/09/09 was unfortunate and in any event, following that logic, it should have been 10/10/10:). Anyway,enough bickering. Some took the hints and didn't expect an M10, others didn't and did expect it. Oh well, that's life and time to move on. M Monochrom? Not for me but others will like it and if Leica can fill another niche and add to their coffers good for them. X2? Not for me either, fixed lens and no built-in viewfinder. New M 50 f/2? Not for me at that price, but I'm sure it will be a fine lens and sell well. S Lenses? If only........... VLux40? No thanks. Hermes Edition? So, nothing for me this time around I'm afraid, here's to photokina........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted May 11, 2012 Share #320 Posted May 11, 2012 Indeed Steve. I just think Leica messed up. Nothing for me either. The M9M is an interesting camera though, I really hope that it lives up to the hype. Roll on Photokina! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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