mawipingpong Posted May 8, 2012 Share #1 Posted May 8, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am an industrial designer by day and an aspiring photographer by night... About two years ago, I was one of the minds behind the "WVIL" camera design study and currently I am working on a personal project: the design study of a digital interchangeable lens camera. Unlike WVIL, which looked a few years into the future, this project aims to answer the question "what's next?" in the industry, seen through the lens (pun intended) of the Leica brand. I am planning on publishing the results of my design study in late August, a few weeks ahead of Photokina. My concept targets current and previous users of digital interchangeable lens (SLR, mirrorless or rangefinder) cameras and one of the tools that I am using to better understand use behaviors, is a survey, containing 19 questions. I would very much appreciate if you could spare 15 minutes of your time to fill out the following survey: Camera Design Study If you wanted to help me even further, please feel free to forward this message to friends that are using mirrorless camera systems or SLR's and who'd be willing to help me with this. Thanks a lot in advance, Markus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 Hi mawipingpong, Take a look here Camera Design Study: User Survey. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lars_bergquist Posted May 8, 2012 Share #2 Posted May 8, 2012 I have just filled in your form. I think the feedback you will get will be quite sketchy, so here I amplify: • I am particular about image quality but don't give a damn about sensor size or camera brand, as long as I get the IQ. • I am a relic of the Brass Age and mechanical build quality is very important to me. • I am also a former web and type designer and the user interface is extremely important to me: 1. Physical interface/ergonomics: I insist on physical controls for aperture, shutter speed, manual focusing if at all possible, and preferably also exposure compensation. 2. Digital interface: Leica is excellent – Japanese Menus pestilential. Feature Bloat is a scourge, and we need a vaccine against it. Buttonitis is like measles: Potentially deadly to those without immunity. Japanese Menus: The Japanese Imperial Army fought WW2 with two different 6.5mm rifle cartridges and two different 7.65mm cartridges, all for their own particular weapons and none of them compatible with the other. They did lose – and still they haven't learned the lesson. First of all you have to think straight. • Finder: I love the Leica M finder except in near pitch darkness. A EVF to be useable must offer a virtual size and also definition comparable to what a good classical 35mm SLR used to offer. The eyepiece must be located so I don't have to squash my nose flat against the back monitor. And to repeat one of my pet ones: A camera without a dedicated finder is a cell phone you can't make calls from. A camera you can make calls from is a camera phone, not a camera. • I don't give a damn about 'design' either as long at the rest is OK, and the camera does not look like a silly toy, or like the M9 Titanium. Letting an auto designer loose on a classical Bauhaus-design camera was a crazy idea and I hope Leica willl never repeat the mistake. You might just as well ask an auto designer to design a sexier adjustable wrench. • No Nonsense! • Stick shift! Lars Bergquist – The old man from the Age of the M3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted May 8, 2012 Share #3 Posted May 8, 2012 ........... Agree totally. Made my day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawipingpong Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share #4 Posted May 8, 2012 Thanks a lot for your expansive response, Lars! I personally agree with many points you make (among other things, I find the M9 Titanium mostly horrible and drive a stick shift car) and want to find out what other photographers think. As I have said, the survey is only one of the research tools that I am using to build an understanding of use behaviors. The survey results will be quantitative in nature, and I am in addition conducting a few user interviews, with my hope being that responses will be as opinionated as yours… ;-) Thank you very much again for your help, Markus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted May 9, 2012 Share #5 Posted May 9, 2012 Markus, an interesting and thorough survey. I write about design, among other things. It's a fascinating topic, but often misunderstood. Too often, people think merely about looks or "style", but of course design also involves function and how a products works, ergonomics, and a whole lot of other factors. I think perhaps German has more words for design than English! I agree wholeheartedly with Lars. The classic Leica principles still make sense: concentration on the essentials, the highest possible technical performance, and robustness. Simplicity is a challenge inherent in all computer-based designs. The temptation is to overload products with more and features and apps, whether they are needed or not. Too often, it's software designers who are in charge, not usability experts! For me, and I am guessing a lot of others on this forum, old style controls like shutter dial and aperture ring are often much faster and simpler to use than menu-based systems. I am not a fan of too many options being displayed on the LCD. First, pressing the "menu" button, squinting at the LCD, and then locking in the setting is more fiddly than simply turning a dial. Second, there is no reference scale. Third, it's often impossible to see the LCD in bright light. I also prefer the "haptics" or tactile feedback of manual controls as opposed to touchscreen settings (though many people seem to love them). It's amazing how cameras like Fuji's rangefinder-style models, which are basically Leica knock-offs with some extra features, are being hailed as new and revolutionary when they are nothing of the sort -- I think they prove that classic design still works! Size matters. The original appeal of the Leica was small size but big performance. I think there is still a big need for such a camera today. In many ways, the Leica X1 is ideal, but it's limited. Compacts with zooms like the D-Lux 5 are very versatile but still have limitations. It will be very interesting to see if Leica introduces a new interchangeable lens compact. You might like to also read these posts, about camera size and the appeal of simplicity on this forum: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/237361-size-future.html and http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/231692-liberating-force-simplicity.html Best, David David Killick | Freelance Journalist and Photographer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted May 9, 2012 Share #6 Posted May 9, 2012 David, I agree completely with your take on the X100. Not only classic design but classic control design does indeed work – best! Remember when the first digital wrist watches were introduced? Oh they were the look of the future. Oh they were cool. But the LED display drew so much current that when you wanted to see the time, the watch had to be switched on – with the other hand. LCDs fixed the current problem, but the readout was still slow to grasp. Aircraft cockpit designers too found that digital readouts of thing like airspeed and altitude could be lethally slow to interpret. So now even a completely digital 'glass cockpit' simulates analog instruments with hands, where appropriate. And even cheap watches have reverted to analog dials with hands. This insight was not even the first of its kind. The Swedish king Charles XII did own a digital pocket watch – and that was during the Great Northern War 1700–1721. So it was doable, but people preferred analog, possibly because our Paleolithic way of experiencing time is also analog. Stupid people, people. The old man from the Upper Neolithic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted May 9, 2012 Share #7 Posted May 9, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am an industrial designer... Thanks a lot in advance, Markus You have my contribution to your survey. Let me stress one point - battery performance not only in standby but in extremes of heavy use and at low temperatures. For camera to be considered serious tool good power management is essential, either by basic battery setup or via optional battery pack - think no further than Nikon DSLRs. Superficial loads like EVF, AF and VIDEO would be significant power drain on small camera body (housing small battery) based on iPhone platform. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted May 10, 2012 Share #8 Posted May 10, 2012 David, I agree completely with your take on the X100. Not only classic design but classic control design does indeed work – best! Remember when the first digital wrist watches were introduced? Oh they were the look of the future. Oh they were cool. But the LED display drew so much current that when you wanted to see the time, the watch had to be switched on – with the other hand. LCDs fixed the current problem, but the readout was still slow to grasp. Aircraft cockpit designers too found that digital readouts of thing like airspeed and altitude could be lethally slow to interpret. So now even a completely digital 'glass cockpit' simulates analog instruments with hands, where appropriate. And even cheap watches have reverted to analog dials with hands. This insight was not even the first of its kind. The Swedish king Charles XII did own a digital pocket watch – and that was during the Great Northern War 1700–1721. So it was doable, but people preferred analog, possibly because our Paleolithic way of experiencing time is also analog. Stupid people, people. The old man from the Upper Neolithic And yet several new car models seem to be reintroducing digital speedos, tachometers and other gauges. Driving a work car, a Toyota Echo, a few years ago, I found the speedo rather disconcerting to begin with. It is nigh on impossible to maintain a steady speed to 1kph. With an analog speedo you don't worry so much. With old Mercedes I just keep the needle in the orange zone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted May 10, 2012 Share #9 Posted May 10, 2012 [...]• I am also a former web and type designer [...] Type designer! You have my complete attention. Thanks for being there. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted May 10, 2012 Share #10 Posted May 10, 2012 I'd like to echo Lars' comments from an SLR user's perspective. THE VIEWFINDER IS CRITICAL. Lars wrote: "A EVF to be useable must offer a virtual size and also definition comparable to what a good classical 35mm SLR used to offer." For me this would be the viewfinder in the Leicaflex SL ideally, or Nikon F or F2. The viewfinder is a critical user interface. I don't care whether it's optical or electronic as long as it's as good as the best of the late '60s / early '70s SLR cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted May 10, 2012 Share #11 Posted May 10, 2012 An EVF must also be instantly responsive. The EVF of the Fuji X-Pro1 has a slight but significant delay. Any perceptible delay is annoying and frustrating when trying to capture movement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted May 10, 2012 Share #12 Posted May 10, 2012 And yet several new car models seem to be reintroducing digital speedos, tachometers and other gauges. Driving a work car, a Toyota Echo, a few years ago, I found the speedo rather disconcerting to begin with. It is nigh on impossible to maintain a steady speed to 1kph. With an analog speedo you don't worry so much. With old Mercedes I just keep the needle in the orange zone. That is fashion pure and simple – as in most design of cars for the general public. The old man from the Age of the Hand Crank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted May 10, 2012 Share #13 Posted May 10, 2012 You have my contribution to your survey. Let me stress one point - battery performance not only in standby but in extremes of heavy use and at low temperatures. For camera to be considered serious tool good power management is essential, either by basic battery setup or via optional battery pack - think no further than Nikon DSLRs. Superficial loads like EVF, AF and VIDEO would be significant power drain on small camera body (housing small battery) based on iPhone platform. Me too! In fact, I have several times expressed the desire for a battery pack to replace the baseplate of the M9, only to be told that you could take pictures for ever on one battery charge. But you can't. Sometimes not even for one evening. An EVF etc. will draw current of course, but seems inevitable. And the battery of my Fuji X100 seems to last nearly for ever. So the argument is not conclusive. The old man from the Kerosene Age Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted May 10, 2012 Share #14 Posted May 10, 2012 I'd like to echo Lars' comments from an SLR user's perspective. THE VIEWFINDER IS CRITICAL. Lars wrote: "A EVF to be useable must offer a virtual size and also definition comparable to what a good classical 35mm SLR used to offer." For me this would be the viewfinder in the Leicaflex SL ideally, or Nikon F or F2. The viewfinder is a critical user interface. I don't care whether it's optical or electronic as long as it's as good as the best of the late '60s / early '70s SLR cameras. My comparison was with the Olympus OM cameras.Large, 100%, bright and with enough contrast to make it possible to check focus everywhere on the screen. I did mainly use them with all-matte screens in fact. And yes, ideally the definition should equal that of the Mk I Human Eyeball. The old man from the Olympic Age Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedi996sps Posted May 10, 2012 Share #15 Posted May 10, 2012 Lars, your posts crack me up...in a good way :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlorianM Posted May 10, 2012 Share #16 Posted May 10, 2012 I would like to see the manufacturer offer different firmware versions to customise how the camera handles, for example when selecting ISO, one could press a button and spin a dial OR push buttons for up/down. We should also be given a choice of whether the ISO button would need to be held down to make adjustments or it can be released. Would an enter/ok button need to be pressed to confirm the selection or is a simple selection enough to activate the option? these should all be configurable. Perhaps one could go to the manufacturer website, answer a survey of how they want the camera to behave, then they would be given the appropriate f/w file to d/l and install. This would be spectacular! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawipingpong Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share #17 Posted May 11, 2012 Thank you very much for your generous help, David! I appreciate the insights and will use the links you recommended. Regards, Markus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted May 11, 2012 Share #18 Posted May 11, 2012 I would like to see the manufacturer offer different firmware versions to customise how the camera handles, for example when selecting ISO, one could press a button and spin a dial OR push buttons for up/down. We should also be given a choice of whether the ISO button would need to be held down to make adjustments or it can be released. [...] The M9 ISO setting is elementary, even elegant. It strikes me that your suggestion adds complexity. Maybe one should be able to leave the ISO menu up without holding the button. Dunno. Doesn't bother me. As it exists now: Press ISO, move the wheel to the appropriate ISO and leave the menu. No 'set' required. That's it! And besides rolling the wheel, you can use the wheel arrow keys to march through the ISO settings, straight up the row, straight down, left, right... . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Posted May 11, 2012 Share #19 Posted May 11, 2012 I love the no nonsense design of the M9. I also agree with Lars post! To me personally there are 3 areas I would like some slight improvement. 1) The viewfinder is hard to use in low light conditions. I seldom had problems focusing my OM-1 or F1n. But I occasionally struggle with the M9. 2) I lack a somewhat more evident mechanical cue on the shutter dial, the slightly different resistance at "A" is bit too easy to miss in my opinion. I like to be able to have control without looking. Occasionally I also have problems reading the numbers in low light environments. 3) A possibility to have an external battery pack. When being outside in low temperature environments (say -30C and colder), the last thing you want to do is to struggle with batteries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJDrew Posted May 11, 2012 Share #20 Posted May 11, 2012 Good luck with the design study. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.