28 summicron vs elmarit, is 1 stop worth more than $1000?

[Peter H]

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As I've read before in a book somewhere, we make decisions with our emotional self and then justify that with our logical self. If that is true, then seriously, buy whatever makes you happy, because you will logically justify every decision you've made.

 

That's an interesting thought.

 

I worked with a man who would complain about everything he bought. He'd always made the right decision of course, but the product always turned out to be less well-made than he'd been lead to believe, or didn't do this or did do that which was obviously stupid of the manufacturer, or it was too big, or too small: always something. And always him.

 

He once sent a half-eaten sandwich back to Marks & Spencer because he couldn't find any mayonnaise in it.

 

They sent him a £20 voucher, although they could have pointed out there nowhere did it say it contained mayonnaise. He became an office hero for a little while.

 

The customer's always right. Even when they're wrong.

[SJP]

<snip>The customer's always right. Even when they're wrong.

Nope, the customer usually is a hateful tosser, like me. Still right of course. Anyway I now demand the other ½, presumably it is now freely available? Please PM for my home address.

[fWord]

That's an interesting thought.

 

I worked with a man who would complain about everything he bought. He'd always made the right decision of course, but the product always turned out to be less well-made than he'd been lead to believe, or didn't do this or did do that which was obviously stupid of the manufacturer, or it was too big, or too small: always something. And always him.

 

He once sent a half-eaten sandwich back to Marks & Spencer because he couldn't find any mayonnaise in it.

 

They sent him a £20 voucher, although they could have pointed out there nowhere did it say it contained mayonnaise. He became an office hero for a little while.

 

The customer's always right. Even when they're wrong.

 

Haha, would like to play psychologist for 5 minutes and break down that scenario to see exactly why he behaved as he did.

 

Customers do get their way a lot of the time, even on occasions when I think they shouldn't. M&S didn't have a choice I suppose, didn't want to risk losing the customers who bought their ball point pens just because someone decided to complain about their sandwiches!

 

At work I sometimes get abused also, with little power to tell them off. Pity they don't see that I do this only for a wage to pay the bills. A lot of workers don't have much control over the workplace in which they spend most of their waking hours.

[delander †]

@fword

 

And i highly doubt winogrand used a 35 or 28 cron/lux to achieve that isolation (more probably using a 90mm at F4). What i'm trying to say here is we (Leica fanbois) should be slightly less obsessed with bokeh; once we do that, a whole new world of more affordable lenses then open up.

 

I am just rambling now...

 

Actually 28mm is reported to have been Winogrand's favourite focal length.

 

Jeff

[sdk]

Thirdly, what I say about bokeh is true. Or let me pose the following question/challenge, (to all of you members here) show me (link or other methods) the best picture you've seen (either by you or others) that have significant bokeh, that is also not in the portrait genre.

 

Here is an example of the OOF character of the 28mm Elmarit ASPH at f/4 and close focus: "We're Not Using This Sign," by the Massachusetts Statehouse, Boston, November 9, 2006

 

It’s not bad, just a bit busy. Some people don’t like the bright ring effect you can see in the trees in the background. It’s more prominent in a large print obviously, but only a sensitive photographer would pay much attention to this.

[sdk]

Actually 28mm is reported to have been Winogrand's favourite focal length.

 

Jeff

 

It’s true according to Geoff Winningham, my old photography professor at Rice University. They were friends until Garry died, and Geoff said 28mm was the favorite lens focal length for both of them. However, Garry would have used older 28mm/2.8 type I, II or III designs because he died in 1984, long before either the 28mm/2 Summicron-M ASPH or 28mm/2.8 Elmart-M ASPH were designed. He also used a 50mm/1.2 Noctilux M.

 

Geoff also prefers the 28mm focal length and now uses a 28mm/2.8 Elmarit-M ASPH with his M6, M8 and M9 cameras.

 

It’s hard to tell what he used for the Kennedy shot, but it does not look like a wideangle to me.

[Rick]

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First of all.... What? I am lost. What you say here is completely lack of logic. Your words somehow convey a sense of anger. Actually, come to think of it, your words were written by anger rather than a cool friendly head (though why the anger escapes me). Please reread my words and exercise the correct side of your brain a bit; chill out man.

 

Anger? No. I was shooting for droll humor inspired by the absurd or maybe my inner-Bill. Andrew Dice Clay once said, there exists a fine line between anger and humor... but in this case I think it was just knee jerk humor to what I perceived as the absurd. Enjoy your lens and shoot at f8.0 and you'll love the lens.

 

And, for what it is worth, most of the time I'm too lazy to spend the time, skill, and creative energy that is involved in catching that moment at f1.4.

[steve_l]

At the Workshop I took with Garry many years ago in Boston, he used a Minolta CLE 28mm with a little tab soldered on to bring up the right frame lines....this was a common mod for a very good, very small, very cheap lens...I got one and used it for many years, until is suffered the fate that they were prone to....fungus growth....it would have cost more than the lens was worth to have it cleaned, so I traded it in, which I now regret. He said that 28 was the widest focal length that could still look mostly normal, anything wider would be too hard to control, or he would have gone wider.

 

He was a terrible critic of our work....he would say "good" or "bad" and when asked why, he would get excited and just say "It's in da pitcher!!!" He could see and thought it was just obvious....he couldn't explain it....on second thought, maybe he was actually more true than any photo critic articulate explanation would have been....

 

And note that due to the limited dynamic range of digital compared to film, that extra stop is way more important....you could pull seriously under- or over-exposed stuff off a film negative much more easily than from a digital one (although "Shadows and Highlights" in Photoshop is pretty amazing sometimes, now)

[Jaybob]

Hi All,

 

I am considering between the summicron and elmarit. Do you think it's worth it to get the faster version. No I am not bill gates or zukerberg, so money is an issue.

 

I often like to shoot at night. With my current skill, I can comfortably hold my m9 at 1/30 or maybe 1/24. Also personally I think 1250 is about highest I am willing to go (1600 only if I am super desperate). So what do you think?

 

Small, light, 2.8, $2000 vs large heavy, 2.0, $3500?

 

Frank

 

Elmarit v. 3 (near the end of the production run, early 1990s) is the way I went.

> $1k.

Whatever you decide, an auxilary viewfinder, even on the M9, is VERY helpful.

[philipus]

In my opinion, bokeh only shows off 2 things:

 

1. that whoever took the photo has some expensive gear ('cause this requires large aperture and big sensor/film)

 

Unless one uses a D2

[Jaybob]

...have a look at the very first photo in this slideshow:

 

Inside the 1960 Democratic National Convention - NYTimes.com

 

A profound image...

 

among many...thanks for that link...nice stuff.

 

Jay

[jplomley]

Just bought a new 28 Elmarit v3, new old stock, 70th anniversary edition lens for $2K. Previously had the 28 Cron Asph. Much prefer the rendering of the Mandler v3. Less contrast, and about equal in resolution to the two copies of the 28 Cron Asph I had previous experience with. The Leica 1913-1983 inscription on the tabbed ring is a nice reminder of the role Walter Kluck (CEO of Leica Canada) played in saving the M product line after Germany pulled the plug after the dismal sales of the M5.

[gjames9142]

The version IV Elmarit is even better -- more compact, and mechanically mine is superb. Puts gave it a great review. I think I paid $1400 for mine in mint condition. It is my main lens, and I not tempted to "upgrade."

[emaras]

Today I received my new Summicron 28mm/f2 ASPH with metal lens hood LE ordered a few months ago. These lenses produce amazing pictures with 3D effect when full open, similar to what can make Summilux 35mm/f1.4 ASPH FLE. I love these lenses for the first moment I have got them in my hands.

However, both - the lenses and the metal hood - look simply beautiful together.

My new Summicron 28mm/f2 allows me to expand my capabilities to capture different object with different tool. Other lenses I use are: CV 12mm/f5.6, Summicron 35mm/f2 (I-type), Summilux 35mm/f1.4 ASPH FLE, Summicron 50mm/f2 (I-type, collapsible), Summilux 50mm/f1.4. Me new 28mm seems to be the most important lenses I use!

The next dreamed glasses would be Super-Elmar 21mm/f3.4 as well as Summicron 75mm/f2.

[lovinglife]

...Today I received my new Summicron 28mm/f2 ASPH with metal lens hood LE ordered a few months ago. These lenses produce amazing pictures with 3D effect when full open, similar to what can make Summilux 35mm/f1.4 ASPH FLE.........

 

Congrats on the 28 Cron - However I find that the 28 cron 3D rendering is a lot different from the 35 FLE...Maybe just my experience.

 

Anyway, back to the topic - I owned both the 28 EM and the Cron ASPH.

the 28 Cron ASPH, like others have said have a very nice rendering (and very sharp too).

The 28 EM is an amazing lens as well - very contrasty, crisp, distortion free, and has an unbelievably small footprint which is nice. However - at times that extra stop really comes in handy..Especially in lower light.

[iedei]

Ok, first off, this is such a vapid question on so many levels I don't quite know where to start to answer such a tiresome question but, I'll try.

 

Buy the Elmerit. Because, anyone so unimaginative they can't figure out what lens to buy and worse, asks a bunch of people that they don't know, and more to the point, don't know you, is probably not going to be able to produce anything remotely inspiring enough that doubling the amount light that gets inside your camera would make a bit of difference.

 

Oh, saying you are no Gates or Zuckerberg doesn't help me at all. I've never seen any photographs they've taken.

 

actually what i find worse than someone indecisive is someone so shallow, materialistic, and uninteresting that they decide to berate somebody creative abilities for asking whether the price difference between 2 products is worth their money or not......

 

thankfully there are no people like that here...oh wait!

 

disclaimer: oh my bad. i was attempting unfunny 'droll humour'.

[Messsucherkamera]

@gniquil -

 

There are more factors than merely the +1EV (or -1EV) difference in speed to consider when choosing between the Elmarit and Summicron 28mm lenses.

 

Since the price difference enters into the decision, my thought would be that it is better to have a 28 Elmarit at hand than to sit around for years saying "someday I will get that 28 'cron." Someday has a nasty habit of never coming.

 

The 28 Elmarit is a cracking good lens by all accounts. The loss of 1EV is not that big of an issue, IMHO - particularly if you are using a digital M. If you are a film adherant, pretty much any film made these days (even E6) can be pushed 1EV with next to no ill effect on image quality.

 

I accidentally shot a roll of RVP (Fuji Velvia 50) at ISO 400 once. I was blown away to find excellent image quality and color fidelity after having it procesed at EI 400 in spite of my mistake. I know that sounds farfetched - but it is true. I have shot Kodak Tri-X at ISO 1600 (N+2 processing) with just a hint of loss of contrast in a straight print.

 

Bottom line: If it were me, I would get the 28 Elmarit and not lose any sleep over the -1EV difference compared to the 28 'cron.