Very interesting answer from Leica on 35mm 1.4

[tashley]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Indeed, I am but one member of the jury looking at just one example of each 35 mm lens in the test. They're all here however and I'm testing them now.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

 

Great!

 

Just so as you know Sean (not sure how much of this thread you've read) often I have found that the problem is just as great at further distances - my 35 lux and both crons failed the 1 metre test but they can miss quite spectacularly at 20 feet too!

 

Have just read your review of the CV 40mm 1.4 and I tend to agree with your take on living with focus shift to a degree - and I certainly agree that it's the image that counts rather than technical perfection - but I do think we should be able to choose when we do want perfection and when we're willing to let it slip in favour of other more important criteria.

 

My 2.5 Skopar 35mm arrived yesterday and I've coded it using the 'Dymo method'. The shots at f4 are everything I've been hoping for, fantastically sharp. Be interesting to see how you find it across a broader range of criteria.

 

I know you have future reviews coming out of your ears but I'd love to hear what you think of the 18-35-50 TE on the M8. It might be the answer to my focus issues and since you say it's so nice in bright light, it'd be fine for F4 and tighter days!

 

Best

 

Tim

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[sean_reid]

Great!

 

Just so as you know Sean (not sure how much of this thread you've read) often I have found that the problem is just as great at further distances - my 35 lux and both crons failed the 1 metre test but they can miss quite spectacularly at 20 feet too!

 

Have just read your review of the CV 40mm 1.4 and I tend to agree with your take on living with focus shift to a degree - and I certainly agree that it's the image that counts rather than technical perfection - but I do think we should be able to choose when we do want perfection and when we're willing to let it slip in favour of other more important criteria.

 

My 2.5 Skopar 35mm arrived yesterday and I've coded it using the 'Dymo method'. The shots at f4 are everything I've been hoping for, fantastically sharp. Be interesting to see how you find it across a broader range of criteria.

 

I know you have future reviews coming out of your ears but I'd love to hear what you think of the 18-35-50 TE on the M8. It might be the answer to my focus issues and since you say it's so nice in bright light, it'd be fine for F4 and tighter days!

 

Best

 

Tim

 

Hi Tim,

 

I'm still working on some lens reviews that began in September (!) No kidding. The 35 Skopar has a tiny rearward focus shift at F/4.0 and F/5.6 (in tests at 3 feet) but it is insignificant and hidden by DOF by F/8. So, yes, that lens should be quite sharp at F/4. The 35/1.7 Ultron showed no focus shift at all. Working on the Summicron samples right now but the lens does show some focus shift.

 

What is the Dymo Method?

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[bsmith]

After 15 pages of this, I STILL don't think we've gotten to the root of it!

 

Tim

 

15 pages because you repeat the same statements every other day

[Jamie Roberts]

{snipped}

What is the Dymo Method?

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Sean--

 

I think it's the use of that white label-maker tape (called a Dymo or something like that) to form an edge where the CV LTM adapter cuts out (placed in between the mount and the lens.

 

A bit jury-rigged, but the tape is stiff without being thick enough to cause undue focus ailments. I think, anyway--I'm not messing with focus on the lens side

 

I just went to store to purchase a bunch of modeling paint; next is to order John M's adapters

[Jamie Roberts]

As usual in the interests of brevity I got sloppy: when I paraphrase him as saying 'pop' what I meant was the particular effect seen in images such as

 

[ATTACH]36266[/ATTACH]

 

from a 50 lux

 

{snipped}

 

Tim--ah yes--that kind of separation in OOF areas is pretty much beyond the capability of an f2.8 28mm lens, especially on the M8 cropped body, though the cron comes pretty close from what I've seen.

 

Of course, with the 50, you also get compression, which makes it (and the Nocti) so darned wonderful.

 

(I hate to say it, but my 35 at 1.4 looks like that in terms of contrast; the wide-angle doesn't have quite the compression but it's still fabulous).

[tashley]

15 pages because you repeat the same statements every other day

 

 

Maybe, but this thread has to assume that people pop in for the first time half way through and therefore the basics need repeating and re-iterating, especially since no clear cut answer has emerged. If it bores you, you might consider not popping in?

 

Best

 

Tim

[bsmith]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Maybe, but this thread has to assume that people pop in for the first time half way through and therefore the basics need repeating and re-iterating, especially since no clear cut answer has emerged. If it bores you, you might consider not popping in?

 

Best

 

Tim

 

You don't even own the lens, you decided to buy a 35mm CV lens instead of a Leica 35mm, you already have an answer from Solms, you don't believe anybody who disagrees, what are you looking for ???? You don't like the lens....move on

[bsmith]

Maybe, but this thread has to assume that people pop in for the first time half way through and therefore the basics need repeating and re-iterating, especially since no clear cut answer has emerged. If it bores you, you might consider not popping in?

 

Best

 

Tim

 

You don't even own the lens, you decided to buy a 35mm CV lens instead of a Leica 35mm, you already have an answer from Solms, you don't believe anybody who disagrees, what are you looking for ???? You don't like the lens....move on

[sean_reid]

Sean--

 

 

I just went to store to purchase a bunch of modeling paint

 

You're missing out. There's nothing like explaining to the clerk why you need help in the nail polish section.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[tashley]

You don't even own the lens, you decided to buy a 35mm CV lens instead of a Leica 35mm, you already have an answer from Solms, you don't believe anybody who disagrees, what are you looking for ???? You don't like the lens....move on

 

 

 

I do own a current model coded 35 cron (as anyone who has read the thread would know). I previously had two new model coded 35 luxes.

 

I have the CV also and it is clearly sharper at the centre by a huge margin at F4, than the cron.

 

I never said I don't like the lens. I said it has issues. It does. Your version (I looked at your posting history) is uncoded and sharp as tacks. Jamie's is uncoded and similarly sharp. What we are trying to do here is uncover what there is in common between lenses that work and lenses that don't. This might be a clue.

 

The reason I continue to post here is that people continue to follow the discussion and be interested in an answer. If it affects both Leica 35mm lenses, which it appears in a significant number of cases to do, then it is a significant phenomenon because 35mm lenses need IR filters AND to be coded to give good colour: and only Leica make coded 35mm lenses. Therefore if one wants a fully functional 35mm lens on the M8 without resorting to hand-coding, one has to have a Leica 35mm lens. None of this is rocket science.

 

As I implied before, if all this bores you, why get involved? The rest of us are still interested and furthermore it is in Leica's best interests that this gets pursued and analysed.

 

Sorry to sound brusque but frankly, you're being both rude and ill-informed.

 

Tim

[tashley]

Hi Tim,

 

I'm still working on some lens reviews that began in September (!) No kidding. The 35 Skopar has a tiny rearward focus shift at F/4.0 and F/5.6 (in tests at 3 feet) but it is insignificant and hidden by DOF by F/8. So, yes, that lens should be quite sharp at F/4. The 35/1.7 Ultron showed no focus shift at all. Working on the Summicron samples right now but the lens does show some focus shift.

 

What is the Dymo Method?

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Interesting... my Skopar hasn't been near a test chart yet but I probably won't bother cos out of twenty frames shot today its mid-aperture performance at centre is very crisp and not suggesting backfocus, though it is softer at the edges than the cron.

 

The Dymo method is as Jamie says. It isn't foolproof cos you have to hold the flap you created with Dymo tape down over the code sensor with one finger as you shoot, otherwise the gap lets light seep in. It might also create more blur on one periphery of the frame than the others when I look more closely. But so far it's useful, quick, easy and doesn't get smudged off ink all over the place! I am working on a method of using padded foam strips to stick onto the Dymo strip to bring the code closer to the code sensor, but so far with precisely no success!

 

Best

 

Tim

[ChrisC]

You don't even own the lens, you decided to buy a 35mm CV lens instead of a Leica 35mm, you already have an answer from Solms, you don't believe anybody who disagrees, what are you looking for ???? You don't like the lens....move on

 

William - Not only is this aggressively dumb of you, it's downright rude. Many of us who have followed Tim's plight with with his focus shifting Leica 35 lenses are grateful for his persistence in trying to get to the bottom of why 'great' Leica lenses he [and others] have purchased can't hold focus. That is why, in exasperation, he has tried the CV line. I think Tim, and other contributors to the thread are doing us all a favour in trying to get to the bottom of a serious issue. Do you think it OK for extremely expensive lenses to shift focus? If the thread is repetitive or boring for you; why the hell have you kept reading it?

 

....................Chris

 

Edit - Repeated some of Tim's reply; slow typing at fault again.........

[tashley]

Thank you Chris! Support much appreciated.

 

Tim

[castelletta]

You don't even own the lens, you decided to buy a 35mm CV lens instead of a Leica 35mm, you already have an answer from Solms, you don't believe anybody who disagrees, what are you looking for ???? You don't like the lens....move on

 

To me it sounds very absurde this kind of post in a forum like this. Sort of aggressive.

 

Tim, me and many other people here try to uncover the real problem behind this serious and REAL issue. The Leica forum, I think, is made of people that care much about their equipment and top quality photography. Therefore issues like this need all sort of attention and investigation, it is a long thread because the solution is not already so clear, but we are narrowing...

 

Please Tim, feel confident that your reiteration is only helpful to the Leica community.

And please William, if you are really bothered, skip this thread; it's so simple.

[rami G]

You don't even own the lens, you decided to buy a 35mm CV lens instead of a Leica 35mm, you already have an answer from Solms, you don't believe anybody who disagrees, what are you looking for ???? You don't like the lens....move on

 

 

Is it a photonet invasion? What is the problem simply to "move on" if you don't like the thread?!!! I, for once, have found this particular threads one of the more helpful threads here, and it allowed me to stop bumping my head on the wall regarding what I am doing wrong. Owning both the 35 1.4 apph and the 28 cron, I am looking for an answer...

 

btw, just for the record. My lens is also silver. It was coded recently. I did not do a thorough test before it was coded but I did not get sharp results from it. I am trying not to front focus to prevent the focus shift when closed down but I do not find it a very practical solution. I wish the Leica had iso 50 or so so I could just keep the lens for wide open work even in bright days

[ho_co]

Oops!

 

There goes the 'chrome is better' theory.

 

Thanks for the info, Rami!

 

--HC

[rami G]

Oops!

 

There goes the 'chrome is better' theory.

 

Thanks for the info, Rami!

 

--HC

 

so the first hypothesis was that Leica simply has a systematic issue with black? first the magenta issue, then the focus shift... they could have sold them with IR filters and a silver paint tube and use the Rolling Stones logo: "Paint it Silver"... ; >)

sorry, I wish the silver were fine

[bsmith]

I do own a current model coded 35 cron (as anyone who has read the thread would know). I previously had two new model coded 35 luxes.

 

I have the CV also and it is clearly sharper at the centre by a huge margin at F4, than the cron.

 

I never said I don't like the lens. I said it has issues. It does. Your version (I looked at your posting history) is uncoded and sharp as tacks. Jamie's is uncoded and similarly sharp. What we are trying to do here is uncover what there is in common between lenses that work and lenses that don't. This might be a clue.

 

The reason I continue to post here is that people continue to follow the discussion and be interested in an answer. If it affects both Leica 35mm lenses, which it appears in a significant number of cases to do, then it is a significant phenomenon because 35mm lenses need IR filters AND to be coded to give good colour: and only Leica make coded 35mm lenses. Therefore if one wants a fully functional 35mm lens on the M8 without resorting to hand-coding, one has to have a Leica 35mm lens. None of this is rocket science.

 

As I implied before, if all this bores you, why get involved? The rest of us are still interested and furthermore it is in Leica's best interests that this gets pursued and analysed.

 

Sorry to sound brusque but frankly, you're being both rude and ill-informed.

 

Tim

 

Leica already answered your questions. You obviously can't adjust to the idiosyncrasies of the lens design. Maybe if you keep asking the same questions, they'll just tell you what you want to hear. Don't worry about me, stop being a drama queen.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[tashley]

Leica already answered your questions. You obviously can't adjust to the idiosyncrasies of the lens design. Maybe if you keep asking the same questions, they'll just tell you what you want to hear. Don't worry about me, stop being a drama queen.

 

 

 

(Sigh)

 

Again (and hasn't it struck you that other posters here seem to agree with me that you're rather rude and now in an increasingly personal way) the point is not that Leica have agreed. Fully acknowledged. The point is that though they have agreed, many people (such as yourself) have lenses that don't do what Leica says they do. This thread is about why that might be and a lot of people are interested.

 

I re-iterate, and you can be sure this is the last time I'll respond to any ill-natured rubbish from you, that if you have no interest in the topic there are plenty of other threads out there for you to do your thing in.

 

Tim

[mjh]

Leica already answered your questions. You obviously can't adjust to the idiosyncrasies of the lens design. Maybe if you keep asking the same questions, they'll just tell you what you want to hear. Don't worry about me, stop being a drama queen.

It's not just Tim, we all want to get at the bottom of this. If you have nothing to contribute, or don't want to, then you should better keep out of this thread.

 

We all know about the undercorrected spherical aberration of the Summicron. If that was all there is to it, then we would need to get used to it and adjust the focus accordingly. Only there are those copies of this lens that deliver sharp images at all apertures, which leaves open the tantalizing possibility that there is some magical calibration of the lens – an ever so slight front-focus that preserves the sharpness at f1.4 and at the same time shifts the focus back into the DOF at smaller apertures.