More WATE/486 horribles

[dannirr]

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The first image is outdoors, WATE with 486. Lens detection enabled.

 

Note: the terrible cyan (red) vigneting, as well as the filter reflection (top left) created by the view opening in the filter holder allowing some incident light through.

 

The second image is indoors under fleurescent lighting - no correction to WB applied to this image (it was on auto) - I see little or no vigneting - I assume as there is little IR under these conditions?

 

It seems to me that, at this time, the WATE is best used without an IR filter, but probably with lens detection enabled? Thoughts? Advice?

 

Danni

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[jonoslack]

Hi Danni

My filters haven't arrived yet, so I've been forced to shoot without them. I have to say that for wide angle work, there aren't many situations when the IR issue intervenes. I have a WATE on order, and I'm not planning to use filters on it in the short term.

 

Dealing with magenta synthetic fibres is one thing, but variable cyan drift is quite another.

 

Have you tried shooting without it? That's what I'll be doing.

[adan]

Interesting: I just this afternoon got my first IR filter (39mm Heliopan "Digital"). Tried it on the 15mm Voigtlander (it fits inside the built-in lenshood).

 

Does not seem to create QUITE so much cyan havoc as you're getting here - but then I haven't even got the images off the SD card yet for detailed viewing. The 15 C/V, BTW, shows a touch of cyan in the corners even with no external filter - the M8's built-in filter, weak as it is, still has enough effect to be visible with a lens that wide.

 

Looks like the WATE filter holder needs to be black-taped to cover the hole and block reflections.

 

Yes - or rather, No, fluorescent lights don't seem to cause as much IR magenta tinting. I shot my first 3 "tests" of the new filter inside the fluorescent-lit camera shop, and couldn't find any casts for the filter to correct. Outside in sunlight the effect of the filter on blacks and gray-greens (which also go purple or brown with the M8) was much clearer.

 

Although actually I see a tad of green tint in the corners/sides of the preemie shot - the striped towel, e.g., and the tapes below it, shade to green on the right.

 

I've shot north of 5,000 shots with no filters so far. Sometimes the magenta is really obnoxious, and sometimes it's not apparent at all. I'll be glad to have filters for the longer lenses (my 90 'cron pre-ASPH is a bear for purple outfits in sunlight, for some reason), and at the wide end I'll just have to develop a feel for when the filters will do more good or more harm.

[Vivek Iyer]

Although it sounds ridiculous, Cosina may have a better coating on the C-V Heliar (pure speculation).

 

See here on the effect of coating on the curvature of lens surface:

 

ARRI Lens Tutorial - What is the T* XP Anti-reflection Coating?

[rvaubel]

Although it sounds ridiculous, Cosina may have a better coating on the C-V Heliar (pure speculation).

 

See here on the effect of coating on the curvature of lens surface:

 

ARRI Lens Tutorial - What is the T* XP Anti-reflection Coating?

 

I can affirm that the 15mm Heliar does cause the M8's sensor filter, week as it may be, to cause cyan vignetting. An interesting experiment would be to try the Heliar both on the M8 and the RD1. Since the RD1 has a stronger IR filter on the sensor, the effect should be worse.

 

I will compare the two cameras tommorow.

 

Rex

[d_brown]

I dont have the WATE, but with the CV15 the cyan vignetting is quite bad. Fortunately it is very easy to fix. Just use the PTCorect filter on the red channel only. Try a value somewhere between 9 and 14. It is quick, easy, and works every time.

 

Thanks for posting your photos. I'm considering the WATE as my 30% off choice, but waiting to see more results. Wish I could see one as there may be a way to avoid using their filter holder and the huge filter.

 

Good luck sorting it out!

 

Dale

[marknorton]

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I'm not finding IR to be much of an issue at the moment but I think it will become so as we move into spring and summer - it's important not to get hooked on the idea that it's only black synthetics that emit it - IR is everywhere especially from foliage and you only have to put an IR pass filter on the camera to see what is making it through to your sensor as an out of focus haze.

 

I'm hoping that the combination of the filters and V1.10 will be a fit and forget solution - taking filters on and off is going to be a pain, especially for those lenses with clip on lens hoods.

 

As for the WATE, an image of the slots in the filter holder we can do without and I'm still waiting to see how, if at all, Leica are going to handle the lens in firmware.

[SteveP]

How do you secure the filter inside the CV15mm lenshood?

[robsteve]

How do you secure the filter inside the CV15mm lenshood?

 

I mount my 39mm 486 filter upside down on the 15mm CV. To secure it, I found an old 39mm filter, removed the 39mm male retaining ring from this filter and contact cemented it to the front trim ring of the 15mm. My 486 then just threads on to this.

[SteveP]

Interesting. Have you tried using it on a film M? I thought that the CV 15mm hood was pretty tight on clearance, but the crop factor of the M8 does allow a slim filter inserted into the hood to work with no additional vignetting visible. It doesn't take much movement outward to result in vignetting, though, and looking at the same setup on a film M (by sighting from the corners of the film plane back out the lens) seems to show vignetting. And how did you remove just the male threads from a filter? Delicate work!

[edlaurpic]

A dependable source told me yesterday that the new M8 firmware will deal with Cyan issues for all coded lenses, including the WATE. Seems to me that if the WATE coding could be hand-applied to the 15 or if - who knows ...maybe lightning will strike - Leica deigns to provide for the user to enter lens coding choices in the menu, the 15 should also work perfectly. Right now, I have coded my 15 as a 21, but the real effects either way must await the new firmware. I'm guessing we will have it in about a month or less...just guessing.

[robsteve]

Interesting. Have you tried using it on a film M? I thought that the CV 15mm hood was pretty tight on clearance, but the crop factor of the M8 does allow a slim filter inserted into the hood to work with no additional vignetting visible. It doesn't take much movement outward to result in vignetting, though, and looking at the same setup on a film M (by sighting from the corners of the film plane back out the lens) seems to show vignetting. And how did you remove just the male threads from a filter? Delicate work!

 

Stephen:

 

The male thread is the retaining ring that screws into the filter to hold the filter glass in. I think it might have been an old 39mm Tiffen filter I took apart to get this male threaded retaining ring.

[SteveP]

Ah! - the retaining ring. Was thinking you had surgically excised the end threads.. Thanks - Steve

[tom0511]

With all this reading I am still hesistating to order the Wate.

 

Might one be better off with the cv15 and 21/2.8.

15: A 39mm seems easy to postion, and I am pretty sure to find someone who would code it for me as a Tri-Elmar for 100-200 $

21: A step faster than the Tri-Elmar (which is not that important for me) and moreimportant easy to use it with filter and hood. Also I like this lens a lot.

 

I could use this combo together with the Ricoh GRD 21/28 viewfinder. Sean mentioned it was 3/4 ratio, but I compared itto the Leica 21mm finder yesterday and do no fond that a big difference. The Ricoh finder seems to work of for that lens.

 

The question about the Tri-Elmar how to postion a filtr which does notlook like a monster is still open.

 

How did you guys decide?

cheers, tom