leicanut2 Posted January 18, 2012 Share #21 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm highly aware of what is going on around me when walking around with my camera. Watch where you leave it while eating ect. Try to stay with other people and consider hiring a body guard/guide. In India I'm sure you could hire your own gang for $50. Tape over Leica Logo. Â As far as the wire goes... I'll take the wire. I'm a big guy and not going to just hand over my Leica easily. I'd love to see some skinny 100lb kid on a moped try to drag me along... ain't gonna happen. Getting jumped by a gang with knives , well then you have to make a smart decision to give it up. That's a whole nuther level of crime than the bag snatch and run criminal. It's common for people to cut the stap and run with your camera.. the wire gives you a split second to hold on and they will most likely run. Â Watch out for anyone that talks to you. People in South America pull one where they ask you for directions while holding a map up close to you.. meanwhile they try to dig in your pockets and/or have another person working behind you. Carry a decoy wallet with a small amount of $$. Real wallet in front pocket or even better money belt. Â PACSAFE with wire. +1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Hi leicanut2, Take a look here Security travel tips. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted January 18, 2012 Share #22 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Why is tape over a logo "foolish"? Â Because it won't stop someone stealing the camera. Most thieves are opportunists, they'll steal anything that's not nailed down. If a thief is knowledgable to realise a camera with a red dot is a Leica, he'll also recognise one with the red dot covered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicanut2 Posted January 18, 2012 Share #23 Â Posted January 18, 2012 After reading this thread I dug around in my old camera junk and found a old canon strap, I stepped on one end and tried to break it by pulling. Well I could not break it. So maybe I would fall down anyway, but hard to drag 200 lbs. I still like Pacsafe 200 bag with wire keeps the subway razor blade kid from cutting and running away with my stuff. Just my 2 cents. Â Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 18, 2012 Share #24 Â Posted January 18, 2012 After reading this thread I dug around in my old camera junk and found a old canon strap, I stepped on one end and tried to break it by pulling. Well I could not break it. Â Jan: Â Try it again with the strap attached to the camera by a typical strap ring (or triangle) and I think you will find that is the weak spot. The ring should break right open. If it weren't so darned expensive, Â I'd try the same with the Pacsafe wired strap, but I already know a nimble finger will release it at the strap's clip - It is made to be that way. One has to gaffer tape over the protective sleeve to keep that from happening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share #25  Posted January 18, 2012 so are thiefs in India my experience- the motorcycle snatch is far more common in Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia... my partner had her bag snatched in Kuala Lumpur. Seems to be bags mostly... But in two years in India I never heard of one snatch incident (except monkeys- they snatch food)  I did hear of:  * itching powder: dropped down the back of Victims neck. Victim (V) seeks water- unknowing of true extent of problem. Removes back pack to apply water- applies water- at this exact moment backpack disappears- V is preoccupied with scratching...  * shoe shine scam. Small child runs up and drop some cow dung on victims shoe and departs. V is totally unaware. Another small child, a shoeshine, offers victim a shine. V declines gesturing down at shoes... V reconsiders and gets a shine (I love this one- and was strangely happy when it finally happened to me).  *V sleeps on train and awakens to find luggage stolen (common story on 3rd class trains. I would use a chain or cable here. * V is offered tea in third class train from friendly family. Victim wakes up several hours later completely naked, hallucinating, half blind and under the influence of datura in the care of police in small rural village train station... (not at all nice).  * V is requested to leave his passport and other valuables in the Hotel safe. The hotel/ashram safe is robbed and 600 people lose their passports...  * V arrives in India and is convinced by cab driver that 'Delhi is not safe'. Cab driver convices him that he should leave the city immediately and drive to Kashmir. V Agrees and is driven hundreds of miles into the Himalayan mountains to Dal Lake - Srinigar where he stays on a luxury house boat. However he soon realises there is a war going on- and the boat owner is witholding his passport and other valuables. He finds himself a prisoner on the boat... there are battles going on nearby and he knows nothing of where he is or what is going on. No one speaks English. At night he escapes and runs off into the streets- penniless- passport-less. Another cab driver takes pity on him and saves him- driving him back to Delhi (where I meet him near the British Embassy). He went straight home after that...  * V is surrounded by Sadhu holy men at worlds largest gathering amid perhaps 60 million people, the awesome Kumb Mehla. They simply take his Leica M. He offers no resistance (he has another, and many rolls of film).  * V wakes up in darkened hotel room at night to witness strange sight: a dark shape is floating across the room, V believes he is dreaming, but when he rubs his eyes he notices a silhouette outside the (widely) barred window. The scene becomes clear- there is a man with a long stick- he has hooked Vs bag... V jumps out of bed and grabs the bag out of the air! There is sound of the running footsteps and the stick crashes tot he ground... V Has outwitted the thief who has made off into the blackest of Himalayan nights... V has a great story to recount (and just has;)).   Having said all of that: Don't worry overly- chances are you will be fine- as long as you have your wits about you. Much more chance of falling down a hole. There are some big ones... keep an eye out. Oh- yeah- and insure.   Damn, and I was just worried about diarrhea. Holy crap. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismon Posted January 18, 2012 Share #26 Â Posted January 18, 2012 I often carry a small Leitz table tripod. It travels well when carried in a small pistol holster worn on a belt. When attached to the camera, the tripod provides great support. The empty holster provides great security. Misreeants prefer the certainty of a "safe" target. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeverettfine Posted January 18, 2012 Share #27 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) The only difficulties I have ever heard of have occurred at customs. I have one rather dramatic story that illustrates this: Back in the mid-1980's a photojournalist I know arrived in India and stepped up to the counter for customs check with his rather complete set of Nikon gear. After inspecting the gear, the clerk proceeded to take one of the lenses and put it under the counter. The traveler protested, the manager was called, and HE proceeded to select a lens for himself and put it under the counter. The message was clear...keep complaining and he would soon have no equipment at all. I am sure things have changed, but there are probably countries where such things still occur. Luckily, most people really don't know what Leica is and probably would overlook it. It really doesn't look like the "expensive" equipment professional photojournalists carry. The fact that most people have no idea what they are looking at will work in your favor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share #28 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Luckily, most people really don't know what Leica is and probably would overlook it. It really doesn't look like the "expensive" equipment professional photojournalists carry. The fact that most people have no idea what they are looking at will work in your favor. Â And the fact is that two of my lenses (Zeiss 35mm and 50mm Summilux) are silver - with a mismatched black body. Hopefully, an erstwhile theif would assume that I am a bad mark because I can not afford matching finishes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted January 18, 2012 Share #29 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Commonsense applies. In my experience you are at more risk in heavily touristed areas around railway stations and near tourist hotels than in the quieter backstreets. Thieves target tourists and crowds are good cover. Most thefts are opportunistic. Years ago on the French-Spanish border a thief got my slim wallet which was tucked tight inside my trouser pocket -- he must have been super deft. I now use hidden pockets and a moneybelt. Â You'll never blend in completely (though, for some reason, I keep getting mistaken for a local in many countries -- perhaps it's my Mediterranean complexion!). But try not to stand out too much and carry a lot of flashy gear. You'll look like a target. Â OTOH: Any bag is at risk, even a non-descript one. In fact, a bright colored bag helps you keep track of it more easily. Â I am also large enough to make miscreants think twice before tackling me -- but size wouldn't deter a gang, or sneaky kids. Be vigilant, and keep your eyes peeled at all times! Â Perhaps the security risk is one advantage of all those heavy DSLRs: You can use them to bash a robber over the head! Just kidding. Â I shudder to see so many photographers carrying cameras over their shoulder with big lenses facing outward: They are just asking to get dinged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted January 18, 2012 Share #30 Â Posted January 18, 2012 I think that there is a fundamental misunderstanding here. Thieves don't look for red dots (and are not dissuaded by their being obscured - that's the equivalent of sitting in front of a small child, hiding behind your hand and cooing "where's the baby?"). They do not target the Leica owner before the Olympus owner. They care not a jot if your camera looks unfashionably old or - horrors - is last month's model. Â The logic is straightforward: Â You have something they do not. It is worth something. If it can be stolen with minimum risk it will be. If you look like a target, walk like a target, behave like a target you are a target. Â Remember: A bag is no protection. A steel strap is a liability. Your biggest handicap is your attitude. Your biggest asset is your ability to assess, avoid and evade people and situations that represent a threat. Let down your guard and you will pay the price. Be over confident and you will pay the price. Â That's life. You can insure against it but ultimately you cannot guarantee that you will not be a target. Â Regards, Â Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoRoRoPa Posted January 18, 2012 Share #31 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Try what Stratherb did to his M9 in order to work on a reportage in Rome: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/forum-zur-leica-m9/192642-roemische-diebe-auch-nicht-mehr-dass.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jneilt Posted January 18, 2012 Share #32 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Andy, if you hang a bag over one shoulder, then the risk is just as you describe. But I would never do that. My strap always fits diagonally over my chest and is not slack. That minimizes the grab and run risk. This practice worked well for me during three years in Naples! The bag remains visible and protected by torso and arm.. Â I prefer just like above with the addition of a zip tie on my leather belt to the bag. Â 1) It keeps your bag from flopping all around when you are bending over, kneeling, etc. 2) Dummy-cords are just a smart idea in general. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeverettfine Posted January 18, 2012 Share #33 Â Posted January 18, 2012 Only one more word necessary: Insurance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 18, 2012 Share #34 Â Posted January 18, 2012 I'm very lucky not to have had a problem in almost 40 years of shooting and much travel, but I still stay fully insured, use common sense and don't fret over it. It's only camera gear; if someone wants it badly enough, so be it. Â When walking about I don't use a bag, but often put the camera strap over my shoulder and wear a jacket on top (light or heavy depending on weather) with front open for easy access by me, but not others. In some urban areas I keep a bit of money and insignificant papers in my front pocket, with real money and such in a money belt under pants front. Mostly I just act naturally and enjoy the photo and travel experience. Â Working out of a car or motorcycle of course requires different security strategies. Â Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 19, 2012 Share #35 Â Posted January 19, 2012 Sorry, it is late and I've missed dinner so my mind is twisted. Â I cannot resist the image of having a dummy expensive camera easily ripped off which is full of C4 explosive that blows up 10 minutes from being stolen so that the whole nest is blown away. Â OK, make it 30 minutes. Â Ach, never mind. I'm going to bed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jneilt Posted January 19, 2012 Share #36  Posted January 19, 2012 Sorry, it is late and I've missed dinner so my mind is twisted. I cannot resist the image of having a dummy expensive camera easily ripped off which is full of C4 explosive that blows up 10 minutes from being stolen so that the whole nest is blown away.  OK, make it 30 minutes.  Ach, never mind. I'm going to bed.  speaking of....  Someone I know once had a large box lifted from his truck. Its contents~about 20 lbs of used cat litter on it's way to the dumpster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share #37  Posted January 19, 2012 As I have said many times before, I would rather give up my camera than be dragged down the street as a bloody pulp behind a snatch thief on a moped or in a car... Steel cable straps have absolutely zero deterrent value, don't forget. Other than the excellent advice Andy has already given, I would simply say  - don't look like a victim - don't attract undue attention - don't carry too much - don't be distracted - don't obsess  This advice applies equally in Richmond as in Jaipur.  Have a read of this too.  Bill, thanks for the link. Good advice. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted January 19, 2012 Share #38  Posted January 19, 2012 Damn, and I was just worried about diarrhea. Holy crap.David In 6 months in the South of India I never got a stomach upset. Sometimes that aspect of India is over-stressed. In the North (especially) in the dry season- it is worse- and you should take all the standard precautions. I advocate eating things like Banana's (they have the best banana's in India- hermetically sealed- look for the small red ones!) and drinking green coconut milk-not just bottled water all the time- indeed bring a small water bottle- there are generally water purifiers in bottles and safe drinking water to be found. Look for fresh cooked food, avoid meat, avoid dodgy 'western food'- salads and hand peeled fruit. Wash your own hands regularly. You should be fine (caveat viator). and not to worry David- those stories represent 2 years on the ground traveling rough- third class, staying in 'rooms' that cost a few dollars a day...I found India to be a very safe country by and large- on a short visit you will be lucky if the cow dung/shoe shine scam occurs.  Don't know about straps (could be dangerous if it got caught in a machine/accident?) - but I do have an opinion on those money belts some people advocate for traveling. You look ridiculous (and like a target) if you are constantly reaching down your pants trying to find money. And if some thief determines that you have something of great value down your pants: well that is an unpleasant situation to be in to say the least... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted January 19, 2012 Share #39 Â Posted January 19, 2012 ... I do have an opinion on those money belts some people advocate for traveling. You look ridiculous (and like a target) if you are constantly reaching down your pants trying to find money. And if some thief determines that you have something of great value down your pants: well that is an unpleasant situation to be in to say the least... Â A good idea to have some spare cash handy in a modest looking wallet (not a huge stash). Â A concealed moneybelt (around neck or shoulder holster, not too bulky) is a good place to take passport and vital stuff when on the move. When staying in a decent hotel lock them in the safe when out and about for the day. Also keep a card with vital contact details on your person, and photocopies of vital documents -- one set in the bottom of your bag and another at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted January 19, 2012 Share #40 Â Posted January 19, 2012 Get good insurance. Â Keep it minimal. We always take to much stuff. Think about one lens-two max. Â What about a fanny pack (for the front) like Think Tank makes. Nothing on your shoulders that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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