DMR Firmware V1.3 or Collectors & Historica

[Willem van Beers]

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Hallo, I had this morning the professional repair dept. from leica on the phone and they assured me that the new firmware is still under development and will be introduced in the very near future. I'm also not very happy about Leica 'communicating" with the DMR owners but who knows how difficult it is to re-write, from scrap, new firmware without any assistance from Imacon. I stil do not want to exchange my DMR for a Nikon!!!

Regards from Holland, Willem

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[woodyspedden]

Wow

 

This may be the most interesting of all the Leica Fora ever.

First let me say that I am the owner of two Leica R9/DMR units and I love the combination. That does not mean that I am satisfied that Leica has lived up to it's commitments regarding the product(s). The fact that there has been no firmware upgrades, even in the face of so many issues which are in their realm of facts, is simply out of bounds. I could care less as to how many issues they face with the M8 (i own two M8 bodies and loads of lenses) it has nothing to do with the DMR/R9 etc. Those of us who plunked down many bucks for this system have every right to expect service beyond the pale. Leica is showing how it is distancing itself from the needs and wants of its consumer base.

 

I love and respect GuyMancuso who had personally done more than anyone I know to educate us all about the Leica system(s) and particularly compared to the 1DsMkII etc. But after a couple of years convincing us all that the DMR/R9 was as good as one could expect, he abandons the system althogether for the M8 and its lenses! I now own two M8's and almost as many lenses as Guy, but I can't write off all this gear as he because I am not a "pro".

 

No problem Guy because I am in charge of my life and what I buy is ultimately in my hands. But I have to say that I bought into the DMR/R9 (particularly compared to the 1DsMkII) based on a year of having you take us through the options. Now to have you simply abandon the whole DMR system in favor of the M8 leaves me feeling really abandoned. I totally respect you and your integrity but I will never make another decision about Leica or anyone else for that matter based on your conclusions. I feel that you are a diletantte in the camara world where whatever is available you will jump to. I don't think you understand that when you are a role model you have a responsibility to be consistent. I now own a huge amount of R gear based on your personal recomendations. I will end up selling it all, hopefully for not too much of a loss, in order to "get in line" with current thinking.

 

I am sure that at the end of the day this is my problem. I followed (perhaps blindly) the advice of someone I respected and felt mirrored my needs and wants. Never have such needs and wants been so far apart. So, with love and respect Guy, I part. I am not a real part of these fora because I don't represent the technical and image end points of this world. You do and more power to you. I just think that you need to understand how much money gets spent by so many of us based upon your recommendations.

 

With all of this said, I have learned a great deal from you. I will probably be shooting M8's and the great lenses for the rest of my (now pretty short) life. I hope others will not have so tough a time reconciling your views of the DMR/R9 after a year and a half of the Fred Miranda forums.

 

I wish you the best with your photography, regardless of hardware, because you are truly special. Your lighting techniques are truly one of a kind. I would one day love to take just one image which matches your wonderful eye. But in my opinion you need to be much mor e careful as to how you influence others

 

Yours in totally mutual respect and love

 

Woody

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Woody i did not leave the DMR because it is any less that what it always has been the best DSLR on the market for image , it still carries that title and i still and always will support that. My decisions to sell it have nothing to do with leica , Imacon and anything that even resembles it. The simple fact is it sat quietly in a safe doing nothing. I can't have gear doing nothing it bothers the hell out of me. What you don't know is also personal and the bottom line is i needed some cash flow. i would have sold a car but i need to get to jobs. What people have no clue about is how violatile this business is and how clients string your ass out for months without pay ( I'm owed about 35 K) I have a wife a huge house 3 cars and 2 children all looking for money. They come before anything, gear is gear and it represents money but my family is my life and if i have to sell it all to make there lives happy than so be it. i have a lot of respect for you but your comments are unfounded. The DMR was picked apart from a system point of view and nothing left to it except 2 lenses , it was time to sell it. It's a business decision and put some into a system that has more on it and use the rest for bills . Pretty simple decision for me but very hard to do. I loved the DMR and honestly it does not make me happy at ALL selling it and I want to get to a MF system also at some point here. I make no apoliges whatsoever helping folks get into the DMR NO ONE has every said i was wrong and I Have been right on it all the time. For folks looking for blame go knock On Imacons door , there the ones that have put the screws on you with a closed system that has no chance for someone else to finish it . just ask the folks that own H1 and H2 camera's. They did the same to there own customers and put them on a upgrade path

[andybarton]

Guy

 

Have you also sold the 38 that you held to Woody's head in the shop as you forced him to buy his DMRs?

 

[bill_green]

Honestly I think people will keep or sell the DMR based on the system itself, not the firmware or what Guy does. I bought the DMR because I was fed up with Canon and Nikon and I needed platform that covered all my needs. Now my needs have changed and I am willing to sacrifice the long end for light weight. Not long ago a lusted after the 5 lb. 180 f2, but now I'm looking for a whole system that weighs 5 lb.

[gogopix]

Guy

 

Have you also sold the 38 that you held to Woody's head in the shop as you forced him to buy his DMRs?

 

 

Guy,

 

You have it? The legendary 38mm biogon? (you didn't get any of Woody's hair grease on it when holding it to his head, did you?)

 

Want to sell? email me!

 

Regards

[carstenw]

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Victor, there is no smiley there, so I am not sure if you are joking. I am sure Andy was referring to a virtual 38 Special, not a Biogon, which is somewhat less convincing when forcing someone...

 

Woody, with all due respect, Guy has never lied about the DMR, nor has he ever recommended anything in bad faith. The fact that he (and I and Bill and apparently many others) relatively simultaneously felt that the SLR systems were getting too big and heavy, and decided to move to the M8, well, no one could have foreseen that. The M8 didn't even exist at the time the DMR Bible got underway, and I think Leica still thought at that time that it was impossible to build.

 

The world changes, and it isn't always planned. If you enjoy your system, I don't know why it should make a difference to you what is in Guy's bag? Personally, I went down to my dealer, lusting after that 180/2 just like everyone else, and played around with an R9/DMR with the 180/2 for about 10 minutes, and decided that it was much too heavy for me. I would love to own that stuff, but the size is prohibitive. You really need a roller bag for that kind of stuff, unless your name is Arnold.

 

The M8 is just another world. The R glass is world class, and there isn't another system out there with a better overall lineup, but the M lenses are just breath-taking. Not one of us knew that a few years ago, since you could only use them with film. If I had been interested in shooting with a film camera, I may have discovered it earlier.

 

Anyway, long post, short conclusion: Guy is a pro and buys what suits his needs at any given point in time. If something better comes along, he switches. It makes no sense for people like you or I to buy on his recommendation, *unless* we have independently arrived at the same system as the ideal, and just need some pointers. I find it is unfair of you to lay a guilt-trip on Guy.

 

Guy is also Italian and his enthusiasm gets the better of him

[Guest stnami]

Hey Woody 5 years ago all the top models were screaming about the killing of animals for their fur, now they are happy to wear it...... whatever is in fashion. All due respect but the camera was a dead end, too big out of what was really needed, but a nice idea. It is just that in some quarters it was the bees knees and the best and now it is on its knees an abandoned toy making way for the new kid..... whatever is in fashion

 

Guy is also Italian and his enthusiasm gets the better of him

What's that mean?????

[EH21]

Woody,

If it makes you feel any better, I'm still using and keeping my R8/DMR. I'm hoping that by the time I finish building my collection of R glass there will be a R10 to upgrade to.

 

In fact anyone that is selling off their R gear in favor of the M system or some other setup please feel free to contact me. I'm looking for some R stuff.

 

As far as firmware goes...I've heard from Dave Elwell at Lecia NJ that they are testing the new DMR firmware so it can't be too much longer.

 

Regards,

Eric

[woodyspedden]

Woody,

If it makes you feel any better, I'm still using and keeping my R8/DMR. I'm hoping that by the time I finish building my collection of R glass there will be a R10 to upgrade to.

 

In fact anyone that is selling off their R gear in favor of the M system or some other setup please feel free to contact me. I'm looking for some R stuff.

 

As far as firmware goes...I've heard from Dave Elwell at Lecia NJ that they are testing the new DMR firmware so it can't be too much longer.

 

Regards,

Eric

 

Eric

 

I too am keeping my DMR and R glass because i don't want to be in a position to be buying the glass again, and at higher prices probably, when the R10 comes out. I love the M8's and shoot with them constantly but still have needs which the RF cameras deal with poorly in my opinion e.g. macro and long telephoto. I have sold off some of the R glass which the M duplicates eg. 28,35 lux, 50 lux. Also the 35-70 elmarit covers these focal lengths remarkably.

 

Also for the benefit of those who commented on my original post let me make clear that I respect Guy very much and have learned a great deal from him. I also take full responsibility for my own buying decisions and blame no one. What I said, or at least meant to say, is that a person of Guys stature wields a great deal of influence on those of us who know so much less than he. So it was shocking to me after following his unbridled endorsement of the DMR on over 1000 pages of the Fred Miranda forum to learn he sold it all! Not that anything is wrong with that decision and Guy made it clear where he was coming from, but shocking nontheless. So I felt a little "abandoned" as a result. That is my issue, not Guy's. So if I offended anyone, please accept my apologies. And for you Andy, moderators are not allowed to carry weapons or advocate their use..........even when it might be a good idea.

[woodyspedden]

Victor, there is no smiley there, so I am not sure if you are joking. I am sure Andy was referring to a virtual 38 Special, not a Biogon, which is somewhat less convincing when forcing someone...

 

Woody, with all due respect, Guy has never lied about the DMR, nor has he ever recommended anything in bad faith. The fact that he (and I and Bill and apparently many others) relatively simultaneously felt that the SLR systems were getting too big and heavy, and decided to move to the M8, well, no one could have foreseen that. The M8 didn't even exist at the time the DMR Bible got underway, and I think Leica still thought at that time that it was impossible to build.

 

The world changes, and it isn't always planned. If you enjoy your system, I don't know why it should make a difference to you what is in Guy's bag? Personally, I went down to my dealer, lusting after that 180/2 just like everyone else, and played around with an R9/DMR with the 180/2 for about 10 minutes, and decided that it was much too heavy for me. I would love to own that stuff, but the size is prohibitive. You really need a roller bag for that kind of stuff, unless your name is Arnold.

 

The M8 is just another world. The R glass is world class, and there isn't another system out there with a better overall lineup, but the M lenses are just breath-taking. Not one of us knew that a few years ago, since you could only use them with film. If I had been interested in shooting with a film camera, I may have discovered it earlier.

 

Anyway, long post, short conclusion: Guy is a pro and buys what suits his needs at any given point in time. If something better comes along, he switches. It makes no sense for people like you or I to buy on his recommendation, *unless* we have independently arrived at the same system as the ideal, and just need some pointers. I find it is unfair of you to lay a guilt-trip on Guy.

 

Guy is also Italian and his enthusiasm gets the better of him

 

Carsten

 

To be absolutely clear I never said or implied that Guy lied or did anything else in bad faith. The real point of my post was that I was very influenced by Guy because of his knowledge of photography and photographic equipment. So I followed the "leader" and bought into his total enthusiasm for the DMR and R Glass. I guess that in the end what this all means is life changes and sometimes quickly. Guy is now super enthusiastic about the M system and sees no professional future for his R gear and the DMR. He is a pro and must make the decisions that are best for his business.

 

I had an emotional response to Guys decision but that is my issue and I fully accept that. If I have offended anyone in the process, I again apologize. I will say no more on this subject

 

Woody

[ddp]

Not surprised by Guy's decision - he did what he had to do. I've bought and sold more gear than I can remember based on what my job needs are. I wish I could keep it all (especially the 180 Summicron) - but needs change.

 

I think his reports and commentary on the Leica digital systems have been great - but people should buy into a system because it suits them, not based on certain users thread discussions. Like my dad used to say - "If everyone jumped off a cliff, would you do it to?"

[Guest guy_mancuso]

It's a decision based on use versus what was left in that particular system and money. None of it made me happy to sell it. frankly i wish i had the money too just keep it . It was out of my hands in many ways and i sold it too cheap to move stuff around and my wife's car needs to be replaced on a lease. My needs and wants are always determined by other factors than what one always wants. I think they call that life