imants and personal photography

[smokysun]

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at imants suggestion, i'd like to open a new thread on 'personal photography'

 

what this has come to mean is the photographer him or herself, involved as a protagonist in the process: as a shadow, player, actor, etc.

 

everyone can get in on the act of course. with digital and the web, pictures and blogs and diaries are so common, you'd think there'd be more great work. but it's like the spoken and written languages. even with universal literacy you get a handful of real poets in a generation (if you're lucky).

 

there's something searing or soaring about a 'real' poet. a personal commitment and a willingness to reveal oneself with warts included. there's a depth of emotion plus an overwhelming need to speak.

 

in photography this is, frankly, very rare. it has happened more in journalism, say with w. eugene smith. but on a personal level, most people are being coy.

 

yes, there is a certain amount of exhibitionism in this, as with all performance art. but if something lifts it above the mere desire to show-off, then it becomes rather like a religious passion.

 

this is particularly true in color. many of the best pictures echo religious paintings of the masters. yet they come out of everyday life.

 

i don't have any reservations about proposing nan goldin as one model. one picture, 'stigmata', shows her wounded hand after falling into a pool during a movie shoot in india. and as with most religious work, there is no humor but a lot of compassion in her work.

 

another more clouded example is the japanese photographer araki. if you watched 'contacts.2' a dvd of photographers talking about their contact sheets, you know araki enormously affected by his marriage. the pictures he took of his wife on their honeymoon and her eventual death, in his estimation, made him a photographer. if you get 'araki by araki' it has two thousand pictures, many of them with other women and bound women, etc. if you don't know where he's coming from, it seems like pornography. but he's a haunted guy. someday an editor will whittle down his productions to the essential.

 

two other photographers who exhibit a very strong 'personal' compassion and religious quality are robert bergman in his portraits of street people and luc delahaye with 'winterreise' his trips into the russian underclass. but again, since they are not players in their own pictures they don't strictly qualify. this might be another category of photography.

 

anyway, what interests me in this deluge of photographers is what separates the ordinary from the significant. david hockney said in a hundred years most of the photography we see as art will disappear. that what will survive is photography as history, subject and the strange style of former times what is interesting.

 

thanks, imants. i don't know if this is what you had in mind, but it's a start. can others of you suggest photographers who might fit into this category?

 

wayne

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[earleygallery]

Sorry Wayne, but your point or question is? I've read your post twice and I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

 

I like the Hockney quote though.It carries some truth today - I find old photographs interesting because of their historical importance more so than their technical or artistic merit.

 

Regards

[sean_reid]

Hi Wayne,

 

One to look at would be John Coplans and the nudes he did of himself late in life after a long career as a writer, curator, editor, etc.

 

I'm in Nova Scotia leading a tour now so can only check in on the forum now and again.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Bob Ross]

You are, I think, discussing photography as a form of self expression as separate from recording or documenting reality even in the best of light. Alfred Stieglitz named this Equivalences and Minor White expanded on it, in order to try and teach the concept. Others that you have pointed out are good at it and you seem to be asking "how do they do that?" or "see, it does happen". It is a fascinating side of photography, but where do you want to go with this discussion?

[smokysun]

Find out who you are and do it on purpose.

- Dolly Parton. Popular American country Singer and Actress, b.1946

 

ah, maybe i can turn this around and ask a question:

 

what photographer moves you the most (and not just a single picture) and why?

 

what is your own personal involvement in taking pictures? are you willing to be vulnerable and reveal yourself?

 

and the question i ask myself is: how can i draw the best out of myself?

 

how much am i willing to risk?

 

wayne

 

ps. excuse the confusion, james. and, bob, yes, i'm asking how do the few who succeed do it? i've always tried to learn from looking at the masters. and, sean, i've seen a couple of coplans photos and they seem to me very daring. thanks.

[Guest stnami]

As I see it there are several ways (there are probably more) to skin this cat

You can ask your subject/situation etc to do this and that thus direct the result.

Be a voyeur and use a telephoto or be into sneak imagery

Impose and live in their faces

Treat the whole caper as elements and principles of design

.....

and then you just be there or walk around and not take a shot because there is no story you want to tell

[earleygallery]

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Thanks for clarifying for me Wayne, I see your point. I'll come back to this later when I've got time to make a proper response.

[Bob Ross]

Hi Wayne,

One approach is to consider a photograph as a carrier medium of aspects of the self. The musical parallel is drums. They can be part of a band or in Africa they can talk. Entertainment or communication?

Personal involvement in making a picture that can communicate, probably involves how each of us processes information and some awareness of how the viewer does it, too. For me it has to do with how many elements are in the image and so I tend to favor minimalist work. It seems that keeping it simple helps with the chances of communication occurring with a viewer. When I see a cluttered and busy picture, there is an info overload and I go into the entertainment mode and have fun looking at all the busy elements interacting, rather than try to perceive something communicated.

What is your take?

Bob

[smokysun]

hi bob,

 

usually i value simplicity, being a zen guy by nature. a simple outline of a mountain often affects me more than the whole shebang. and it makes me as the viewer a participant, as i have to fill things out.

 

with the d-lux 2 i have been tempted, because of the format, to try the baroque: several scenes happening like a three ring circus (see the photos of alex webb). but anything i put up on my wall for any amount of time has to be simplified.

and 'would i put this up on my wall' is often the question i ask myself.

 

when i first started writing poetry, i thought, 'it would be fine if a person had a little book of them in the back pocket to help them in trying times.' i wonder if anyone does this with pictures? (i remember thinking about cezanne's cardplayers at the met, 'this would change the atmosphere of a room.')

 

i've been trying to answer my own questions during the last day. this has been interesting (to me). one thing i realized is i do take pictures for myself. i've always felt like a displaced person, probably the result of moving so much when young, despite living in the same town and working the same lookout for over twenty years. i realized taking pictures has grounded me more in where i am. this goes for my own form. last summer, i told myself, 'i'm going to see if i can reconcile myself with aging.' so i did a couple hundred self-portraits. it helped. and continues to do so.

 

so there's part of the answer. i do like taking theater and dance pics for other people. to make them feel good. to give them a memory of something transient. something to console them in old age. and it's great knowing i've had a third of a million hits on the pictures:

 

http://www.pbase.com/wwp

 

that's far more than will ever read a poem or see a play.

 

 

hi imants,

alas, i'm in the last category most of the time. but i'm happiest when telling a story. and maybe by personal photography i mean autobiography done with art. as you've said (and einstein) the viewer/photographer affects the situation. that's an element to be seen, and which i see in most of your pictures. it's very liberating.

 

and i've been trying to think of those artists who's work gives me a feeling of liberation. two for sure: the films of fellini and the poems of the mexican poet, octavio paz. in photography i'm not quite sure, but i'm testing, looking thru all these books now i have the time.

 

thanks to you both.

 

wayne

[Guest stnami]

Wayne I am sure you are not alone in using photography as therapy and/or as a healing tool. I still feel quite happy to photograph for photograpy's sake and accept the changes that occur. Once it was viewed for its archival worth something for future generations, it spends a bit of time in the artworld as a concetual, documentary or aesthetic tool, etc

Eventually images will be woven into games I have a few friends who are playing around with that idea creating interactive games of images they take in different places in a single real time frame and place them within game situations, eventually treating them as life itself or trying to transend their day to day life. all great stuff.

[Guest stnami]

footnote my D2 gave up to the ghosts today so it is off to Germany I suppose, I know these things should no happen in a 2 year window but they do ah well, great camera though. New learning curves

[smokysun]

hi imants,

 

sorry about the d2. has the lc1 held up better? and are the pics any different? since no d3 seems forthcoming, i've thought of getting the lc1 as a backup. the new d-lux 3 will probably again be my camera of choice for everyday use.

 

in a way i may be using the game idea. back to writing, i've written five new theater pieces which either include photos or are inspired by them.

 

as for the result of 'personal' work, we never know exactly what will interest other people. i think hockney right. in the long run it's the content that will prove important. so if people get interested in your story, then they'll really look at the photos.

 

take a look at a small book like 'winterreise' and see if that format might work for you. (i have all these big tomes and they're hard to handle). i'd like to see you do a book.

 

thanks,

 

wayne

[Guest stnami]

Magnum Photos - In Motion

 

Still on the subject Magnum has revamped its site and directions with podcasts etc. While very proffessional and well presented( some fantastic stuff) , personally I would like to view some aspects without the narration and having my reaction to the images dictated.

I know we must reinvent to stay viable as photographers, I am going to give this type of presentation a whirl, place it on my site and see how things go, just have to figure out whether to start from scratch or use some previously made work

I'll get back to you on the book Wayne

ps the camera is off to Germany tomorrow I wish I was going just for a sickybeak at what they are really doing

[smokysun]

hi imants,

 

thanks for the magnum site. fascinating stuff. 'the photographer as hero'! watched a bit of steve mccurry. how feverish these photographers are when at work. how they walk around, click a picture, then hide their camera, look the other way, as though they'd hadn't taken a picture at all. frankly, it is a bit disillusioning to see the person at work. in the abstract, it sounds like a heroic enterprise. but in truth it's sneaky.

 

i've been thinking about what i find liberating in fellini and octavio paz. simple answer: imagination. they create new realities starting from their personal experience. (fellini's 8 1/2 a classic example). we, the viewer and reader, get unstuck by participating in new links and jumps. there's delight participating in this creative person's journey.

 

we want to participate in the magician's tricks. that's why i like the compact camera so much: doing a lot with a little is like magic.

 

hope your d2 comes home in good repair. are you using the lc1 in the meantime? how does it compare?

 

my best, wayne

[stunsworth]

frankly, it is a bit disillusioning to see the person at work. in the abstract, it sounds like a heroic enterprise. but in truth it's sneaky.

 

It's difficult to see how else they could take photographs where they want the photographer to be as imvisible as possible to the subject. Walk around with a great big SLR stuck to you eye and you'll be noticed :-). A movie is of course very different. As a photographer there's always a sense of being on the outside looking in, with a movie there is no outside or inside, just space.

 

The looking away trick is as old as the hills ;-)

[Guest stnami]

There is a bit of showmanship ion the Magnum site, which is to be expected in these presentations and the need to engage the audience. Hiding (trying to) really achieves nothing and your presence is is noted, people are not fools far better to be seen but treated as as unimportant. I don't agree with your outside inside view Steve but that's because we approach things in a different manner, you would get a fair amount of flack from movie buffs

There is nothing wrong with the LC1 images in raw are no different but not having used is very often it doesn't feel the same a bit like using the other car

[smokysun]

hi steve,

 

since this is a thread on 'personal photography' i think the question "what does this express of myself?" when taking photos. "how is my personal view of life shown? "

 

you could say: i choose the frame and when to click the shutter. yet people do it all the time with flat results. or pictures very like other people's.

 

take the genre of subway pictures (walker evans, luc delahaye, sean reid, and many others). most of them taken furtively. are they substantially different from each other?

 

the camera you use may make a difference. at a public event, with a big camera, people ask, are you from a paper? you look official. or with a compact you're a tourist or taking home shots. most people don't pay much notice. i would be disingenuous to say i haven't done both!

 

unfortunately, i am having trouble finding a sense of satisfaction in taking pictures (which i can find in writing). most of the time i feel: anyone could take this picture, and probably has.

 

hi imants,

 

probably will pass on the lc1 and spend the money on the d-lux 3. i just love the results from a compact like the d-lux 2. so small and such big pictures. and noise seems to be a non-issue for me.

 

another way to go: acknowledge people when they know you've taken a photo, even if they didn't at the moment it happened. is that asking for trouble?

 

thanks to you both,

 

wayne

[Guest stnami]

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Hallo,

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[earleygallery]

Richard Billingham made a name for himself with a photo-documentary of his parents and his home life, a good example I think of 'personal' photography.

 

I think we all put something of ourselves into our work, we must do, be it style of photography or subject matter (its hard to put a personal message into say a photo of Buckingham Palace, or social or commercial photography in general).

 

You mention the lack of satisfaction you gain from photography as opposed to writing. With writing - or painting, sketching etc - you are in charge off all the parameters and only bound by your imagination. Perhaps you have yet to find yourself photographically, and are still on your journey of self discovery?

[smokysun]

hi james,

 

thanks for the comments and tip on billingham.

 

perhaps i'm so interested in personal work cause of the din caused by advertising and the news. i've just looked thru 'the art of seeing: the best of reuters photography.' none of us can compete on that level of drama.

 

i'm more than ever convinced what is important is the story (sorry, imants), if you want to make your mark. in writing, once i begin a piece, i feel a terrible urgency to finish it before i die. i think all great photographers feel this urgency with the story they have to tell. in photography. i may not, as you have suggested, discovered my photo story.

 

humankind lives with a fascination with story, for better or worse: personal, social, and otherwise.

 

hi imants,

very striking color. and he uses it to tell the africa aids story, definitely a man with a mission.

thanks,

wayne