lars_bergquist Posted December 28, 2011 Share #1 Posted December 28, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) This forum seems very quiet. Maybe it is because MF photogs are too busy to write, or because they are basically lighting technicians, not camera people, or because they hate what they are doing and do it just for the money. Or because they participate in computer forums. So here's an interested bystander chiming in: Where are those ever-prospective leaf shutter lenses? There was a rumour that they would be launched or at least demonstrated this autumn, but nothing has happened. To my mind, this very long delay indicates that Leica has run into deep trouble with this project. Has anybody heard anything from the Gnomes of Solms? Maybe one who is talking in his sleep? The old man from the Age of the Super-Ikonta Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Hi lars_bergquist, Take a look here Leaf shutter, anyone?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest #12 Posted December 28, 2011 Share #2 Posted December 28, 2011 I don't think there is any date set or new information... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted December 28, 2011 Share #3 Posted December 28, 2011 Hi Lars, there's a long thread over at the German S2 forum: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/s2-forum/211389-sind-schon-die-ersten-cs-objektive.html Bottom line: They're still working on it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastgreenlander Posted December 29, 2011 Share #4 Posted December 29, 2011 Im not really interested in the leaf shutter lenses but I've wondered why they are so delayed. If they are working on it, then it must mean they have run into seriuos throuble. --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=65.613469,-37.637245 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albireo_double Posted December 29, 2011 Share #5 Posted December 29, 2011 I was told by my dealer in Austria that Leica had cancelled all their pre-orders for the CS lenses. I understood him that he did not believe the CS lenses were coming at all, ever, or not in any foreseeable future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted December 29, 2011 Share #6 Posted December 29, 2011 Hmmm doesn't bode well........ Maybe Leica are waiting to see what is going to happen to their sensor supply chain, or maybe they just haven't sold enough S2's to warrant the production costs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted December 29, 2011 Share #7 Posted December 29, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) The CS lenses are not cancelled. I had the opportunity to test a 70 CS and 120 CS following Photo Plus Expo in NYC and they work as advertised. I don't know the specific reason for the delay, but my impression from speaking with Stephan Schulz is that they want to make absolutely sure that the leaf shutter is 100% reliable. They are running very long QC cycles to be able to assure this. I will be publishing my CS lens test results soon.... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJohnE Posted January 15, 2012 Share #8 Posted January 15, 2012 I'm a bit interested in the speed of the sequence of operating a focal-plane shuttered camera with between lens shuttered lenses. Is there a lot of clanking and banging and delay in the action of shooting with those lenses? Just curious, not a potential buyer, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 15, 2012 Share #9 Posted January 15, 2012 Well, this is quite interesting in a perverse kind of way. I've had my time with Linhof's focal plane back behind their traditional leaf-shutter lenses. (Linhof's back had lots of problems due to scale that 35mm will not.) But what do you expect from a leaf-shutter lens for a Leica? The shutter will still have to be fully open as it would with electronic flash. No? How am going wrong with this thought? Thanks for any help, -- Pico the idiot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted January 15, 2012 Share #10 Posted January 15, 2012 I'm a bit interested in the speed of the sequence of operating a focal-plane shuttered camera with between lens shuttered lenses. Is there a lot of clanking and banging and delay in the action of shooting with those lenses? Not much at all, with the S2's modestly sized mirror and fully electronic control. The sequence is: 1) Close the lens shutter while raising the mirror. 2) Open the body shutter. 3) Open and close the lens shutter to make the exposure. 4) Close the body shutter. 5) Open the lens shutter while lowering the mirror. So the additional shutter delay with the in-lens shutter should be (a) the milliseconds it takes for the first curtain of the FP shutter to open fully plus ( the very few milliseconds it takes for the lens shutter to open plus © perhaps a millisecond or so for the control system to sequence it all. The sequence 1 to 5 above applies to all MF SLRs, although most older cameras postpone the last one or two steps until film winding and shutter cocking. With an all-mechanical body and an instant-return mirror sized for 6x6 or larger it can be a long and noisy process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share #11 Posted January 15, 2012 Pico, you are not an idiot. Any leaf shutter on a SLR camera will still have to work like the Reflex-Compur shutters on the old Contaflexes etc. etc.: (1) Shutter is open, mirror down for focusing etc. (2) Shutter release is pressed. (3) Shutter closes and mirror flips up. (4) Shutter opens and closes for exposure. (5) Mirror goes down for focusing etc. and shutter opens. All this will be handled automatically of course if you have mounted a C lens and set the mode lever accordingly.It is not unreasonable however to wonder if the steps 1 – 3 will cause a longer shutter lag than the functioning of the focal plane shutter. Leica knows however that studio photographers will not accept breaks in their 'taking workflow' so I doubt that will happen. The old man from the Compur Age Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJohnE Posted January 17, 2012 Share #12 Posted January 17, 2012 (Curses! I replied thanking all and sundry, but some peculiar demon seems to have devoured that reply!) I also asked why the fp shutter does not automatically lock open when a btw lens is fitted; and if the sensor could be switched on and off during focus/compose/exposed sequence. Does it take some appreciable time for a sensorto be set for its purpose? To a technological ignoramus, that would seem better than having the fp shutter closing and opening for each exposure. Dim John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted January 17, 2012 Share #13 Posted January 17, 2012 According to Leica S2 product manager Stephan Schulz, this is the CS firing sequence: shutter release is pressed mirror goes up focal plane shutter opens camera starts exposure central shutter closes focal plane shutter closes central shutter opens mirror returns Hope this helps. When I used the CS lenses, there was a very slight delay which didn't prove to be a problem when shooting. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted January 17, 2012 Share #14 Posted January 17, 2012 (Curses! I replied thanking all and sundry, but some peculiar demon seems to have devoured that reply!)I also asked why the fp shutter does not automatically lock open when a btw lens is fitted; and if the sensor could be switched on and off during focus/compose/exposed sequence. Does it take some appreciable time for a sensorto be set for its purpose? To a technological ignoramus, that would seem better than having the fp shutter closing and opening for each exposure. The lens shutter has to be open while you're viewing. The mirror doesn't block all the light from the sensor, so the FP shutter has to stay closed normally and open just long enough for the exposure. If the camera had an electronic shutter things could be different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share #15 Posted January 18, 2012 This is interesting. The focal plane first curtain starts the exposure, and the leaf shutter terminates it! That solution should be pretty unique. The question has been asked "why the fp shutter does not automatically lock open when a btw lens is fitted". The reason is, I think that (1) C lenses should be fully operational with the focal plane shutter too, and (2) it saves one shutter action, thus reducing wear and tear. The same old man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 18, 2012 Share #16 Posted January 18, 2012 This is interesting. The focal plane first curtain starts the exposure, and the leaf shutter terminates it! That solution should be pretty unique. This left me wondering: The first curtain takes some time to fully reveal the sensor so exposure is uneven. Normally this is compensated for by the second curtain covering the parts of the sensor in the same sequence and at the exact same speed at which they were revealed, but if the exposure is terminated by a central shutter there is no compensation. With short exposure times around 1/500 secs this effect would be quite significant, wouldn’t it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted January 18, 2012 Share #17 Posted January 18, 2012 This left me wondering: The first curtain takes some time to fully reveal the sensor so exposure is uneven. Normally this is compensated for by the second curtain covering the parts of the sensor in the same sequence and at the exact same speed at which they were revealed, but if the exposure is terminated by a central shutter there is no compensation. With short exposure times around 1/500 secs this effect would be quite significant, wouldn’t it? "Quite significant" is an understatement. The FP shutter's fastest sync speed is 1/125 sec, which implies that each curtain takes 7 or 8 ms to cross the sensor - so if the exposure was started by the first curtain and ended by the lens shutter at 1/500, the exposure time would vary across the frame from 2ms to about 9 ms, more than 2 stops. So the sequence that David quoted doesn't make sense to me. It has to be much more like the one I suggested a few posts earlier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted January 18, 2012 Share #18 Posted January 18, 2012 This is interesting. The focal plane first curtain starts the exposure, and the leaf shutter terminates it! Where do you read that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted January 18, 2012 Share #19 Posted January 18, 2012 So the sequence that David quoted doesn't make sense to me. It has to be much more like the one I suggested a few posts earlier. I didn't dare say it, because David Farkas and Stephan Schulz of course are both very knowledgeable when it comes to the S2, but the sequence sounded strange to me too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 18, 2012 Share #20 Posted January 18, 2012 Where do you read that? One would expect “central shutter opens” between step 3 and 4, but it’s missing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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