pico Posted December 14, 2011 Share #21 Posted December 14, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'd second (or third, or fourth) the comments about the Massive Dev Chart; I use the app on my iphone and ipad when developing all the time. Once you get into it, there are variations to the times they propose (to tweak contrast, etc.) that you'll find everywhere, but the times they've proposed have never let me down. It's a great app, a real wealth of information. The Massive Development Chart (MDC) is bullshit except for just some of the manufacturers' literature printed verbatim. Much of the rest of the information submitted is by unscientific impressionists, and of the time/temps are calculated on a linear graphic algorithm - which is not how film develops, but with the uncritical nature of most home developers it is good enough to meet mediocrity. The MCD is a starting point from which even the best intentioned amateur will drift into Massive Mediocrity. It sucks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 Hi pico, Take a look here Good book recommendation for B+W film development. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted December 14, 2011 Share #22 Posted December 14, 2011 I'd second (or third, or fourth) the comments about the Massive Dev Chart; How unfortunate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted December 14, 2011 Share #23 Posted December 14, 2011 The Massive Development Chart (MDC) is bullshit... It sucks. Not my experience, but you are entitled to your opinion. I found it very useful when I started developing at home, developed several hundred films using its times, and never noticed a problem. Guess I'm a mediocrity <grin> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted December 14, 2011 Share #24 Posted December 14, 2011 The Massive Development Chart is an extremely useful resource and an ideal starting point for development of unfamiliar films or using alternative developers. I have used it for years, either on the web, or now via the iPhone App, with consistent success. If you are in the habit of rating films at a different speed than on the box, you can adjust the development times accordingly. Given that you have to start somewhere and given that it can be a PITA to find recommendations for estoteric films in unusual developers, the MDC is perfect. The results of my mediocrity are available on line for anyone to judge for themselves. Perhaps, rather than disparage members here, Pico could kindly suggest an alternative resource covering so many films and developer combinations that will improve all of our experiences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted December 14, 2011 Share #25 Posted December 14, 2011 Ditto what Andy said. Any experienced photographer should know that ANY dev time, even from the manufacturer, is only a guide for the first time you use it. Slavishly follow them and your own preferences aren't taken into account, your own developing equipment (deep tank, daylight tank etc) will make a difference, and your own preferences for agitation, pre-wet or not pre-wet etc need to be factored in. You can only make those adjustments by trying a recommended combination first and see how it works. On which basis the Massive Dev Chart is a great jumping off point for experimenting with new developers or trying a new mix ratio for your current choice. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted December 14, 2011 Share #26 Posted December 14, 2011 The results of my mediocrity are available on line for anyone to judge for themselves. Perhaps, rather than disparage members here, Pico could kindly suggest an alternative resource covering so many films and developer combinations that will improve all of our experiences. I don't know of any film that hasn't published its own recommendations, except for some privately contracted film intended for surveillance work. And I know that some of the data given in the MDC is extrapolated from known films. They did not buy and test all that film. I also know a blowhard who published specs for a film that were so wrong, and most of what he wrote then was impressionistic nonsense. But I must concede, with humility, that viewing the chart to choose a candidate film by its development characteristics is certainly worthwhile - as a point of departure. I should not have used the word mediocre - it is so, so ... mediocre thinking of me. Thanks for the correction and putting up my occasional rant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StS Posted December 15, 2011 Share #27 Posted December 15, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'd second (or third, or fourth) (...) As for drying negatives, I've never been bold enough to use paper towel from fear of scratches (same reason you don't clean eyeglasses or camera lenses with them). I'm sure it works for some. (...) I use it, for example and didn't have any issues so far. I wouldn't use it on my eyeglasses, in my understanding the dust, which is already on the glasses, can cause these scratches, while film out of the rinsing bath should be dust free. I struggled for a long time with water/drying marks, until I realized that the hard water I was using from the tap was responsible (it's not the water leaving the mark, it's the stuff in it)...switched to distilled water with just the slightest touch of wetting agent (Ilfotol) or even nothing added for the very final, good rinse. (...) I use the same recipe, but mix wetting agent and DI water first, before filling it in the tank. Once, I had cracks in the film surface and speculated this might be due to the high osmotic pressure between the film and the very pure DI water. I never had this issue again, but of course, this is no proof that the initial issue was caused by it - just my personal speculation. Stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Pedley Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share #28 Posted December 16, 2011 Thanks for the further tips, folks. For the reference, here is a picture from my very first ever attempt to develop film (Kodak Tmax 400, Diafine developer, 3 mins solution A, 3 mins solution . 100% crop of top left corner. Scanned with Nikon 4000 (mono, ICE Off, 1xscan). I just enhanced contrast slightly by pulling the black point to 0, and a very slight adjustment to curves in Photoshop. Quite chuffed with this first attempt. The only blunder was to forget the scissors in the dark room. After the film was loaded on the spool, I had to rip off the film canister with brute force. Next time..... Mark Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/167828-good-book-recommendation-for-bw-film-development/?do=findComment&comment=1872721'>More sharing options...
BobYIL Posted December 16, 2011 Share #29 Posted December 16, 2011 That is without a doubt the silliest thing I have ever read anywhere. Developers and technique and possible errors in processing have not changed in fifty years. Welcome to the the real world. And the changing-bag - how stupid is that if you cannot find a dark room or work under the covers of your bed. Back to first grade for you. . I am developing my films myself and since 1963, also maintaining a darkroom. The OP is a beginner and have been suggested by other posters some excellent online resources to start with film development. I, on top of them have recommended him to buy a book rather to cover all darkroom techniques including wet printing too. Now, how many of us have started to develop our first film after finishing some books? How many of us being called "how stupid" since they do not have an access to a darkroom, how many of us change/load their films under bed covers instead of changing bags? I think we should encourage the new beginners to start by being not scared of, frankly what is so difficult to develop a Tri-X in the D-76 for example? I have started development by mixing chemicals, today each package comes ready to mix and with printed instructions or online information to satisfy even the most critical lab technicians. More important than these, by having more than 3K posts is this your way of trying to maintain a decent and informative forum to set model for others too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted December 17, 2011 Share #30 Posted December 17, 2011 More important than these, by having more than 3K posts is this your way of trying to maintain a decent and informative forum to set model for others too? Yes it is. Most films include starting points for development. The purchasers might have to tear the box open to view the instructive literature. If that is too daunting a challenge they should buy an X-1 or something that requires no real wet post-processing brain work, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted December 17, 2011 Share #31 Posted December 17, 2011 Everyone's experience will vary, and while I haven't developed B+W for some time, it's great fun and very easy -- well, the developing part is; printing is a whole other ball game! I'd second the Ilford book. This pdf will help get you started, too: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200629163442455.pdf Below, a few hints from personal experience: I still have my Paterson universal tank. Practice loading it with an old roll in daylight. One useful extra piece of equipment is a force film washer, but be careful attaching it to the cold water tap in winter! Sudden changes in temperature cause reticulation of the film -- a crackling type of pattern which is not nice at all. Temperature is important, even with B+W. Try to maintain a steady 68F/20C. Don't cross contaminate chemicals! A drop of developer in the fixer won't harm, but fixer in the developer will instantly ruin it. Glacial acetic acid, just a few drops in water, acts as a stop bath. Wash film thoroughly after fixer (see above), sponge carefully and let it dry in a dust-free environment -- it will remain delicate for a while. A few to try: Ilford Pan F shot at 32 ISO and developed in Ilford Perceptol. Ultra fine grain. Agfa Rodinal. It's a fine universal film developer. I believe the formulation is over a hundred years old! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Pedley Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share #32 Posted December 17, 2011 Good insights and perspectives. It all helps. Looks like it will be a huge playing field with lots of opportunity. I tried the Diafine since I read it is less critical on time (I had to improvise here since I could not find a clock/watch in my whole household that I could use in the dark, so I guessed the time). Clock is ordered, so I can move over to some other chemicals. All the chemistry principles at work here are clear to me (chemistry is my profession). Once I can observe the effects, then I will be able to take control. I just needed a reference for a kickstart, and everyone has provided various options. Thanks! Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted December 17, 2011 Share #33 Posted December 17, 2011 Buy yourself a daylight tank. You know it makes sense Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobYIL Posted December 17, 2011 Share #34 Posted December 17, 2011 .... Most films include starting points for development. The purchasers might have to tear the box open to view the instructive literature... Bravo! You knew these yesterday too, didn't you? BTW, negative attitudes and aggressive responses at our age might be harmful for our health too.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Albertson Posted December 20, 2011 Share #35 Posted December 20, 2011 The Ilford booklet is a great start. Also, look around for a used copy of David Vestal's "Craft of Photography." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ming Rider Posted December 21, 2011 Share #36 Posted December 21, 2011 I always refer to the 'Film Developers Cookbook'. Suprised no one mentioned it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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