Leitax users - consider the "ante" well and truly "upped" - D800 specs

[ThorkilB]

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So I don't think the D800 is going to be plagued with noise, and I've already seen samples from the D800 to prove that (though it's early days yet). In any case, per pixel, the D800 will be nosier than the D3 at higher ISOs, for sure, but you have so many more pixels that for a print of equivalent size the D800 will actually give you more detail with less apparent noise!

etc.

This is the same for the M9 over the M8; in practice the M9 has nearly a 2 stop noise advantage in printing by doubling the resolution (and it has that over the DMR too. Also--Thorsten's great stuff notwithstanding, the M9 is no slouch with colour).

But I wouldn't worry about the D800 being noisy, in particular. The same goes for blur... Yes a higher resolution sensor is more prone to showing blur at 100%, but then again, how big will you print?

 

Thank you for comment...yes it seems that the library could be printet decent-looking out at 215 cm, who would need that….guess I’ll have to do some shots at the shop...in a while with the 800E, the M9(or a M10 paid over at least 12 month J) and the 5DIII at my own card, and carefully rethink in an open-minded way. But the Canon and the M9 could prove too expensive. Would need at least a 24 Elmarit too.

Thorkil

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[ThorkilB]

So I don't think the D800 is going to be plagued with noise, and I've already seen samples from the D800 to prove that (though it's early days yet). In any case, per pixel, the D800 will be nosier than the D3 at higher ISOs, for sure, but you have so many more pixels that for a print of equivalent size the D800 will actually give you more detail with less apparent noise!

But I wouldn't worry about the D800 being noisy, in particular. The same goes for blur... Yes a higher resolution sensor is more prone to showing blur at 100%, but then again, how big will you print?

If you print down (in other scale down) the results will be actually better than a lower resolution camera, scaled up. So in that sense, yes, you're not losing anything by going with a D800.

 

....which can be seen here:

Another Nikon D700 vs. Nikon D800 high ISO comparison | Nikon Rumors

[ThorkilB]

and a Danish photographer who have tried the D800 in Nepal under all sorts of conditions and are overwhelmed, unfortunately in Danish, but he’s Nikon-ambassador, so perhaps we don’t get the draw-backs, but he claim: no problems at all

D800 ser dagens lys

[ThorkilB]

I have asked Casper Tybjerg a danish photographer and Nikon ambassador about these problems that are being presumed here and there, and here are his answer. Sorry for a bad translation. And off course he is not a totally objektive test-person, but anyway here it is:

“Hi Thorkil

Yes there is circulating a lot of rumours out there, but one should know that they come from persons who actually didn’t try the D800. Therefore I wonder how a lot of people can do so many statements.

I can only speak from my own experience, and I just love the D800!! I had it with me on a journey to Nepal in January, and shot a whole lot of pictures.

I used the 14-24mm, 24-70mm and the 70-200mm and found no problems with those.(concerning diffraction, blur etc…Th.)

Boring colours I do not recognize, and I do think this camera reproduces the colours in a splendid way.

That the high resolution should make the camera more difficult to hold still – that’s none of my knowledge. My pictures are razor-sharp and I have been shooting under all sorts of normal conditions without using tripod.

But now you shall remember that I’m Nikon ambassador, and therefore not quit objective.

But I can promise you this, that these words above comes right from my belly and is my sincerely personal experience.

Good luck with everything

Best greatings.

Casper

www.ttf.dk

Casper Tybjerg

CEO, B.Sc.

Nikon ambassador

Skoleparken 83

8330 Beder

Denmark”

</SPAN>

[Jamie Roberts]

I have asked Casper Tybjerg a danish photographer and Nikon ambassador about these problems that are being presumed here and there, and here are his answer. Sorry for a bad translation. And off course he is not a totally objektive test-person, but anyway here it is:

{snipped}

 

What "problems" are being presuming here?

 

I'm sure the D800 will be a splendid camera, you should just get one if you like Nikon colour and their lenses, or if you like their rendering and use your Leica R lenses on it.

 

If you don't like the way Nikon renders, well, then it won't be as splendid. I'm in that camp right now, having used a D3 for years now and shot and processed many 10s of thousands of shots with it....

 

As for having a lot of pixels meaning higher shutter speeds, that all depends on how you shoot. For me, personally, I found having a 40MP camera meant I needed to increase the shutter a bit to maintain clarity at 100% magnification; of course when you're printing with smaller enlargement to begin with that makes a difference too and "perfect sharpness" doesn't matter (same with noise: from what I've seen in the last day or two it seems the D800 will have a practical 1-2 stop advantage over the D700 when printing is equalized, despite the fact that per pixel the D700 is as good or better).

 

No-one is saying that isn't astounding. It is. But I don't want to fight with the colour anymore, and the 5d3 looks interesting to me on other fronts as well, as I've tried to explain.

[ThorkilB]

Hi, some other places presumed that the huge amont of pixels could mean diffraction using more than lets say f.8.0 and blur causing use of a whole lot of higher shutter-speed.

But yes, it must be logical to use higher shutterspeed in some degree, capturing a lot more details.

And yes, I aggree concerning colours at the D3, and I don't presume neither, that it will be any different world on the D800. And using the Ricog GXR by now I'm happy with the colourdrawing from that one, and it seems to look more Leica-like.

What to do, for my part, will depend on some practical shot in the store when they all are available, and Leica could try to hurry up here with the M10, or something cheaper M-camera. Don't want, neither, to spend to much time in pp.

[phancj]

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Just got a call from the dealer having just came back from short trip overseas....they just got one unit and it has been reserved for me. Busy on the weekends so I will pop over to test the cam first thing Monday morning..

 

CJ

[agrokid]

Yes, there's no doubt "the ante has been well and truly upped". But where will it all lead? The technology for high pixel count is now out in the open. Before long iPhone will move upwards, and they'll sell millions. This will further damage Nikon sales at their lower end, and I'll guess that's where they make their money. Never forget, folks, "the best camera is the one you have with you at the time." There's no doubt we live in interesting times. "Pixel Wars" could end, like "Star Wars", with major players leaving the field. My money is on those sneaky little phones. They're the stealth bombers.

[phancj]

I have shot with the cam and I can say most of my apprehension before launch about high iso performance has been unfounded. The colors, DR, pliability of files, stellar AF has just been phenomenal. Even processing files on my 3 year old MBP in LR and PS hasnt been slow either (of course thats relative:). I shoot in high large jpeg plus lossless 14 bit NEFs.

 

What may be issues for some would be the lenses, it is extremely unforgiving for lenses. With the 35 and 85 1.4G many of the photos took my breath away. I cant post them here unfortunately.

 

The VF is ridiculously large for a camera this size and is bright and clear and a real pleasure to use. Live view implementation is excellent. Manual focus should be a breeze (havent tried it as the AF is so superb no reason to haha).

 

I think Leitax users should really look at this camera seriously. IMO there is no comparison between D700 and D800.

 

In foreseeable future theres no way a cellphone cam can do what the D800 does. The nokia N8 was my last cellphone (now using galaxy note since launch last year as it doubles as a pocketable tablet haha) and in low light etc there's no way to take a good photo.

 

 

CJ

[phancj]

Hi, some other places presumed that the huge amont of pixels could mean diffraction using more than lets say f.8.0 and blur causing use of a whole lot of higher shutter-speed.

But yes, it must be logical to use higher shutterspeed in some degree, capturing a lot more details.

And yes, I aggree concerning colours at the D3, and I don't presume neither, that it will be any different world on the D800. And using the Ricog GXR by now I'm happy with the colourdrawing from that one, and it seems to look more Leica-like.

What to do, for my part, will depend on some practical shot in the store when they all are available, and Leica could try to hurry up here with the M10, or something cheaper M-camera. Don't want, neither, to spend to much time in pp.

 

The colors are very good, better than D700 to my eyes to a large extent. Images have that "pop" I dont know why certain sites post those flat photos coz that results I cannot duplicate with this camera.

 

I shot images in jpg and raw and up till now the jpgs have been great no reason to fiddle with raws yet. But with jpgs this good I can imagine how processing them in raw will be biut I'll wait till adobe and nik iron out the crinkles first haha....

 

As for handholding there's no difference with the use of shutter speed as compared to nikons with less MP count, but then I suppose it depends on the particular person using the camera.

 

CJ

[phancj]

This camera may make one sloppy. Having used it for a while I have noticed that these days I tend to be careless in terms of framing simply coz there are so many pixels anyway!

 

Hmmm....

 

Other than that everything looks great. Also, I had to upgrade some of my older cards or after some number of shots the camera takes a few seconds to "recover" from writing those massive NEFs and JPGs simultaneously.

 

CJ

[giordano]

This camera may make one sloppy. Having used it for a while I have noticed that these days I tend to be careless in terms of framing simply coz there are so many pixels anyway!

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It was only the poor quality of 35mm negatives compared with 6x9cm and 4x5inch that made "filling the frame" and "not cropping" important in the first place.

[giordano]

As for handholding there's no difference with the use of shutter speed as compared to nikons with less MP count, but then I suppose it depends on the particular person using the camera.

 

This is only true if you don't take advantage of the extra pixels to crop more and enlarge more.

[phancj]

When I have the time I think I should go down to the used cam stores and get hold of R lenses and get them leitaxed

 

I am using the Nikkor 35 1.4G and the 85 1.4G a lot on this cam and for macro the 60 and 105 2.8 Nikkors. I have the 50mm but the nikon lens is ok but not great. Any suggestions for 50mm R lenses?

 

CJ

[Jamie Roberts]

When I have the time I think I should go down to the used cam stores and get hold of R lenses and get them leitaxed

 

I am using the Nikkor 35 1.4G and the 85 1.4G a lot on this cam and for macro the 60 and 105 2.8 Nikkors. I have the 50mm but the nikon lens is ok but not great. Any suggestions for 50mm R lenses?

 

CJ

 

It depends what you like. My favourite 50mm lens to date is the last R50 (E60) Summilux. It's an astonishingly well-balanced lens; sharp, perfect contrast profile, wonderful colour and bokeh, smooth operation, and so on. It's a little larger due to its being a 1.4 lens, but on a dSLR body that should be fine. It's outstanding, but you're likely not just going to wander down to a used camera store and pick it up. It might still be more than your D800

 

I also have an older, Mandler-era 50 Summicron. Small and extremely nice overall, with excellent flare rejection, it's not as anything like as good as the late model R Lux, but I got it for $250 on eBay, and for that money it's the best lens I ever bought

[phancj]

It depends what you like. My favourite 50mm lens to date is the last R50 (E60) Summilux. It's an astonishingly well-balanced lens; sharp, perfect contrast profile, wonderful colour and bokeh, smooth operation, and so on. It's a little larger due to its being a 1.4 lens, but on a dSLR body that should be fine. It's outstanding, but you're likely not just going to wander down to a used camera store and pick it up. It might still be more than your D800

 

I also have an older, Mandler-era 50 Summicron. Small and extremely nice overall, with excellent flare rejection, it's not as anything like as good as the late model R Lux, but I got it for $250 on eBay, and for that money it's the best lens I ever bought

 

Thanks Jamie. Not sure I want to pay that much for an R lens just for toying but the Mandler era 50 cron you speak of sounds interesting...anything in between?

 

CJ

[mmradman]

Thanks Jamie. Not sure I want to pay that much for an R lens just for toying but the Mandler era 50 cron you speak of sounds interesting...anything in between?

 

CJ

 

Macro Elmarit 60mm.

[andybarton]

I'd love to see the output of a 60 on a D800 (and a 28 too...)

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[Jamie Roberts]

Thanks Jamie. Not sure I want to pay that much for an R lens just for toying but the Mandler era 50 cron you speak of sounds interesting...anything in between?

 

CJ

 

The 50 E55 Summilux that preceded the E60 is actually the softest Leica 50mm lens I've ever used wide open. That's saying something; at 1.4 it's lower contrast and less sharp IMO than the Noctilux at f1.0, which isn't actually all that unsharp, to tell the truth It also vignettes a lot--which can be a good thing. So though I honestly wouldn't pay that much for it, it might still be interesting for you if you can get it cheaply.

 

Don't get me wrong; I love that old 50mm Summicron "Leitz Canada" too. It's a great lens. I don't know what they're going for right now but it's certainly much better overall to me than either the (admittedly faster) current EF 50 1.4 Canon or Nikon 50 AF 1.4, and from f2 on I like it better than the Sigma 50 1.4 aspherical too. If you can pick one up for under $500 you're not going to be disappointed, I don't think. There are some on eBay right now for just about $500, which is a pretty great deal.

 

I also think the 35 Summicron R is a "nice" all-round lens. No mirror clearance issues. It's not as great as their 50s (and neither is the R 35 Summilux IMO) but it's not that expensive and a nice add to an SLR system.

[phancj]

I'd love to see the output of a 60 on a D800 (and a 28 too...)

 

I will pop by the used leica lens store when I have the time, but then I still have to get the lens leitaxed from what I understand, which means no way to really test the lens until I have purchased it.

 

 

The 50 E55 Summilux that preceded the E60 is actually the softest Leica 50mm lens I've ever used wide open. That's saying something; at 1.4 it's lower contrast and less sharp IMO than the Noctilux at f1.0, which isn't actually all that unsharp, to tell the truth It also vignettes a lot--which can be a good thing. So though I honestly wouldn't pay that much for it, it might still be interesting for you if you can get it cheaply.

 

Don't get me wrong; I love that old 50mm Summicron "Leitz Canada" too. It's a great lens. I don't know what they're going for right now but it's certainly much better overall to me than either the (admittedly faster) current EF 50 1.4 Canon or Nikon 50 AF 1.4, and from f2 on I like it better than the Sigma 50 1.4 aspherical too. If you can pick one up for under $500 you're not going to be disappointed, I don't think. There are some on eBay right now for just about $500, which is a pretty great deal.

 

I also think the 35 Summicron R is a "nice" all-round lens. No mirror clearance issues. It's not as great as their 50s (and neither is the R 35 Summilux IMO) but it's not that expensive and a nice add to an SLR system.

 

I am not sure I would go for a 35mm as the 35 1.4G from nikon is VERY good and it has very good AF too:). I would love to have a 50mm or maybe even a 60mm since the Nikkor 60 macro 2.8 is just ok. I do not mind spending something around the ballpark of $1K or so if it is a nice 50/60. Any ideas?

 

Thanks a lot!

CJ