X1 sold, X100 bought...

[Jackson]

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Just from left field, the Dlux5 / Panasonic gives great results, and is especially usable with the external finder. All of these smaller cameras are a bit tricky to use efficiently at times, but worth the effort.

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[Latecomer]

I own both cameras. One of them should really be sold, I have too much money tied up in cameras and I cannot afford it. But how to choose! In my opinion the X1 has superior IQ, but the X100, with its viewfinder, offers a much better shooting experience. The X100 is well ahead at higher ISOs.

 

For the time being I take the X100 out on bright days when framing in an LCD is difficult, and the X1 at other times,but I feel terribly guilty about having the option. Gloom!!

 

There is one other thing. I would probably sell the X1 straight away if it were not for the X100's sticky aperture history. The lens on mine has been replaced and it is hard to be confident it will not happen again.

 

John

[prager]

I own both cameras. One of them should really be sold, I have too much money tied up in cameras and I cannot afford it. But how to choose! In my opinion the X1 has superior IQ, but the X100, with its viewfinder, offers a much better shooting experience. The X100 is well ahead at higher ISOs.

 

For the time being I take the X100 out on bright days when framing in an LCD is difficult, and the X1 at other times,but I feel terribly guilty about having the option. Gloom!!

 

There is one other thing. I would probably sell the X1 straight away if it were not for the X100's sticky aperture history. The lens on mine has been replaced and it is hard to be confident it will not happen again.

 

John

Well, my X1 had the problem with the flashunit what pop's up and won't stay down. For me it was to much a "cheap" sollution how the made it. Thast one reason I sold my X1 withe the nice Luigi halfcase. Now I am glad wit just one camera in my bag - without mension my Gf1, D-lux 3 and Lumix DMC-L1 with nice Leica lens as a leftover from my Digilux 3

I don't know whats the reason, but I have always trouble with Leica's and always send yhem to Solms for some repair.

[Ivan Muller]

both are great cameras producing the same images in terms of quality.

however, there's one thing that the x100 is not having: the philosophy of design based on simplicity. and this is something that you will not get in exchange.

it means you're back to the long menu thingies with lots of options you don't always use.

i'm not saying the x1 is perfect, soooo far from it. sometimes i was even ready to smash the camera because of a missed shot. and it's now gone back to repair because of the broken flash popping up erratically.

but i will keep that damn camera, despite the fact i bought an m9, because when you shoot with it, you simply don't do anything else. you just shoot, your mind isn't blurred by feature and buttons you forgot to click on etc etc etc. and that is a HUGE plus.

 

good luck on the x100. it's a great camera with its own personality. in many ways, it is becoming a classic.

 

My problem with the leica x1 simplicity is that it gets in the way of function. I would love to get rid of the disfunctional flash, mine is also broken. The flash space can be occupied by a iso dial, exposure compensation lever and a .personal' setting lever or switch. Then I need never go to the menu to change settings and everything is visible at a glance. The great thing about the slow af is that it made zone focus a viable option and I don't know of a camera where it works better, certainly not the m9... I have used the x1 a lot this past year, probably more than most and I am still not 100% confident with it, my 5d I can pic up and shoot but the X1 sometimes doesn't shoot.... Will I trade it for another, NO, because I have it now and it works well most of the time and I am in the business of photography not camera collecting, I don't have time to learn another camera again. What I like most about leica is this forum and LFI galleries, its a great way to show your pics, and well organized..I don't even know if canon or fuji have something similar. I think the x100 sounds like a great camera, as good if not better than the X1. But at some stage on has to stop buying every new toy that comes along and learn to use what one has...

[Giacomo.B]

I have bought an X1.....

I bought the X100 in November, was a nice camera and it worked well, then after 15 days...a big problem the shutter blades remained inexorably open from f8 to f16.

I had to send the camera in the UK for change the lens (warranty), when come back (february) i will sell immediately to my dealer.

 

Giacomo

[robert blu]

... but the X1 sometimes doesn't shoot.... But at some stage on has to stop buying every new toy that comes along and learn to use what one has...

My thoughts are similar to Ivan's ones. For me the x1 (I have the VF on top of it) is not a perfect camera but good enough to satisfy me. i have a couple of doubts about, one is the dust on sensor ( after 8 months of use and I had to send the camera to Solms, about 5 weeks without it) and the second thing is that sometimes there is a shutter lag. Not always but I have not been able to understand what the reason is. If I desire to shoot a man walking from one side to the other of the frame I'm not able to "stop" him where I desire. But I do not think to change this camera with a similar or slightly improved one, first because of economical reason (we are facing a difficult time), second as Ivan says a new camera will have its learning curve. I prefer to try to take the most from what I have. In case I should invest my "camera's budget" I would choice something really different, like an m9. Or a DSLR . Much more expensive, but a different league. And buy each couple of years an x1, than an x100, maybe later try the (possible x2), or why not an m 4/3 in the long term becomes more expensive than buying an m9 Just my idea which could be wrong !

robert

[Ivan Muller]

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Robert, our thoughts regarding the X1 are in sync. I carry my X1 with me all the time, I have got to know all its foibles.....but even then, sometimes, inexplicibly it does something random that I did not expect. But almost 95% of my personal images were done with the X1 this past year...my other favourite camera is a Mamiya Zd with 50mm shift lens, that I use almost exclisively for architecture and a Canon systemf for professional work. The author of TOP, the online photographer, says that one should use a camera for 5years before changing...well my 5d is two years old now, my X1 only one year and my ZD is 6years old....and I have no intention of changing any of them soon.....after a while they become like family.....

 

The X1 does what I want it to do well enough and the image quality is good enough......no reason to change!

[mrware]

Funny how things work as I did the opposite, went from a X100 to the X1. I would not go back, but it is a matter of personal preference. Enjoy the X100, it is a great camera!

 

I did exactly that as well.

[Mgauss]

The X1 is jacket pocketable at 11 ounces whereas the x100 is not at 16 and 35% larger.

 

The X100 focuses on the wrong thing often. Usually the background totally ignoring a person 3 feet away.

 

x100 has low iq compared to the x1.

 

I don't need a evf for a fixed lens. If outside I use a small glass on the hotshoe.

 

 

 

 

QUOTE=Ivan Muller;1935278]Robert, our thoughts regarding the X1 are in sync. I carry my X1 with me all the time, I have got to know all its foibles.....but even then, sometimes, inexplicibly it does something random that I did not expect. But almost 95% of my personal images were done with the X1 this past year...my other favourite camera is a Mamiya Zd with 50mm shift lens, that I use almost exclisively for architecture and a Canon systemf for professional work. The author of TOP, the online photographer, says that one should use a camera for 5years before changing...well my 5d is two years old now, my X1 only one year and my ZD is 6years old....and I have no intention of changing any of them soon.....after a while they become like family.....

 

The X1 does what I want it to do well enough and the image quality is good enough......no reason to change!

[lars_bergquist]

Maybe I should explain myself.

 

My 'regular' camera is a M9. My most used lens is the 35mm Summilux (current). I wanted a backup camera, one that was not too different from a M. The X100 answers perfectly – well, almost. I do nearly always use it with focusing on Manual. Now the little AFL/AEL button falls just under my right thumb, and with it, I can focus the camera just where I point it – and it will stay that way until I refocus it. That does nicely approximate focusing a M. Slow? Frankly, after half a century with RF cameras, I'm not that much faster!

 

The other way I use the camera is still on M, but zone-focused. Works well with a lens with the field of view of a 35mm Summicron, and f:5.6 giving d.o.f. like f:8 with the larger camera.

 

So for me, the Fuji is the most M-like of the 'large sensor compacts'. The X-1 is not. Case closed.

 

The old man from the Age of the Brilliant Finder

[lars_bergquist]

A quick illustration from the days between Christmas and New Year. Daughter and grandson (yes, both are Milan fans) playing the Viking board game Hnefatáfl at my kitchen table. Technique: 'Manual auto focus' as described in the previous posting. I suppose this picture could have been taken with an X-1, but how infinitely more convenient with a camera with a real finder! I have a Nokia for my phone calls ...

 

The old man from the Age of the Box Camera

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[phancj]

Respectfully I totally disagree. I honestly do not see how having a VF will help you capture this scene. This issue of VF vs non-VF has been done to death, and this photo tells us absolutely nothing, and illustrates nada.

 

Maybe you can enlighten me (is it just me?) how a VF is so imperative or better for a shot like the one you posted.

 

Cheers,

CJ

[Mr_Jones]

I agree with CJ, but whatever suits the individual is fine. The X100 prices are sinking like a stone and the new MILC Fuji will damage them so badly. I've found the X1 had a long learning curve but I've been very pleased with the end result. I do feel a bit sorry for anyone who jumped ship without finding a good working method for the X1.

[robert blu]

I usually find Lars's posts interesting and instructive. For people born in the "Age of Silver" like me looking through a VF makes always easier or let say more natural to take photos, even if I have to say that indoor I'm getting used to the LCD framing. But a VF is aVF and makes life easier . By the way beautiful photo Lars.

robert

PS: so many interesting points of view here, and now the Fuji X-Pro 1 is arriving...

[lars_bergquist]

If you don't spontaneously understand that, you have probably no real experience of finder cameras. But I will try explaining:

 

That frame, obviously, is one of a whole series of exposures, in all about one dozen. During that time I had to check the interaction between the subjects and at the same time I had to check and change focus and framing. You can no doubt understand what mechanically used auto focus would have done. With a 'mobile phone' finder I could have done either, but not all of it simultaneously. That was possible because all of it was done through the direct eye-level finder.

 

Doing the Frankenstein Stance, bending backwards to view the back screen at ten to twelve inches, all the while clumsily trying to move the camera to direct and level it for the correct framing, works after a fashion if you only take single pictures of a static subject. This, after all was the technique used with the Edwardian press plate cameras with their Newton finders. The subjects of those time did obligingly pose for the shot, tipping their top hats to the 'gentlemen of the press'. The back screen 'finder' is a relapse of about a century.

 

Guess why Oskar Barnack dropped the Newton finder of the null-series Leica, replacing it with the close-to-the-eye reversed Galilean finder that the Leica still uses? Silly old man, eh?

 

The old man from the Age of the Brilliant Finder

[stefano60]

I also sold my X1; the main reason was that it did not do what i bought it for, which was to be a good allround addition/backup to my M8. after a few weeks i found that:

 

- the image quality was superb, with full leica character

- the lack of manual focus was driving me nuts (the one it has is a joke)

- the lack of a viewfinder was even worse (i did put an external optical viewfinder and it helped, but it is still a poor patch to really a bad flaw). I honestly do not comprehend how a company like Leica, which understands photography better than most other companies, did not figure that this camera NEEDED a viewfinder and manual focus.

- a 28mm lens on my M8 would have given me the same results ...

 

so, I sold it and bought a Nikon V1; i know, completely different camera in every respect. it works very well as an all around, travel camera for spontaneous photos, it has a lightning fast AF, and a very respectable image quality (those who denigrate it without having tried it should keep their mouths shut, it is not all about sensor size!).

 

however, i really prefer to keep a consistent look to my images, and so i am about to sell the V1 too; at the end, i am going to buy another R-D1 and use that one as a backup/complement to my M8, i can share the lenses and get excellent images.

 

i am anxious to see what the upcoming new small leica with M mount is like; if it doesn't cost a fortune, THAT might be the way to go.

 

p.s.: i do concur 100% with whoever was saying that we should stop chasing the next best thing and try to make our current gear work!!

[phancj]

If you don't spontaneously understand that, you have probably no real experience of finder cameras. But I will try explaining:

 

That frame, obviously, is one of a whole series of exposures, in all about one dozen. During that time I had to check the interaction between the subjects and at the same time I had to check and change focus and framing. You can no doubt understand what mechanically used auto focus would have done. With a 'mobile phone' finder I could have done either, but not all of it simultaneously. That was possible because all of it was done through the direct eye-level finder.

 

Doing the Frankenstein Stance, bending backwards to view the back screen at ten to twelve inches, all the while clumsily trying to move the camera to direct and level it for the correct framing, works after a fashion if you only take single pictures of a static subject. This, after all was the technique used with the Edwardian press plate cameras with their Newton finders. The subjects of those time did obligingly pose for the shot, tipping their top hats to the 'gentlemen of the press'. The back screen 'finder' is a relapse of about a century.

 

Guess why Oskar Barnack dropped the Newton finder of the null-series Leica, replacing it with the close-to-the-eye reversed Galilean finder that the Leica still uses? Silly old man, eh?

 

The old man from the Age of the Brilliant Finder

 

I understand perfectly what you're saying, and I do use the VF on my DSLR too. And I shot with film Nikons before.

 

What I am saying is I do not see the VF as an end all and I would even go on to say that with articulated LCDs around that could potentially be more liberating than the VF. Not that I think the VF is worse than the LCD but I really think technological advancements will eventually make VF less and less pervasive and it is happening now as we speak.

 

What I think is as LCDs get bigger, more articulated, clearer, good under sunlight this issue we are discussing is moot.

 

But your shot? There is clearly no fast action, people are sitting down having a sedentary board game come on!

 

HAving cameras like the X1 and using it without a VF (I still use DSLRs extensively and am looking at upgrading my nikon soon) I can only say with absolute certainty that using an LCD in certain circumstances do not make me a worse photographer, in many cases the reverse is true. I have a close friend who just switched to the 60D and told me how the articulated screen opened up countless possibilities shooting from the floor (use aVF good luck!), above crowds with extended arm, etc,etc,etc,.........

 

We can choose to be fixated with VF, or be open to new possibilities.

 

Oskar did not see a fully articulated 3 million pixel 4 inch AMOLED. If he did he probably will be staring and marveling at it for hours!

 

What I will agree is that some thinks that shooting with a VF looks more "professional" but I am interested more in results.

 

My two cents.

 

CJ

[Mr_Jones]

In defence of the X1 I wanted to include this picture which was taken with the VF and grip having focussed on auto and switched to manual for the sequence which this is taken from.

 

It has some post processing, vignetting and a little noise reduction but it's a good example of a shot I was unable to get last year, which a year of shooting with this camera has enabled me to achieve.

 

Having said this I have had good results in the same circumstances with a dslr and faster lens although the X1 white balance is always spot on for my taste, which can't be said for the dslr.

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[reddawn]

If you don't spontaneously understand that, you have probably no real experience of finder cameras. But I will try explaining:

 

That frame, obviously, is one of a whole series of exposures, in all about one dozen. During that time I had to check the interaction between the subjects and at the same time I had to check and change focus and framing. You can no doubt understand what mechanically used auto focus would have done. With a 'mobile phone' finder I could have done either, but not all of it simultaneously. That was possible because all of it was done through the direct eye-level finder.

 

Doing the Frankenstein Stance, bending backwards to view the back screen at ten to twelve inches, all the while clumsily trying to move the camera to direct and level it for the correct framing, works after a fashion if you only take single pictures of a static subject. This, after all was the technique used with the Edwardian press plate cameras with their Newton finders. The subjects of those time did obligingly pose for the shot, tipping their top hats to the 'gentlemen of the press'. The back screen 'finder' is a relapse of about a century.

 

Guess why Oskar Barnack dropped the Newton finder of the null-series Leica, replacing it with the close-to-the-eye reversed Galilean finder that the Leica still uses? Silly old man, eh?

 

The old man from the Age of the Brilliant Finder

 

Well said. The same reason I pretend not to know any cameras without an optical viewfinder. Actually, I ignored the EVF only ones as well...

 

Though I must say the X1 was mighty tempting - simply for the elegantly designed body and the red dot. I tried it and I really like the 2 top dials and how functional they are. I also love how small it is.

 

But ultimately I also went for the X100 as I found that image quality wise, it doesn't lose out to the X1, plus the fact it has a faster f2 lens, and better in low light high ISO. And of course it replicates my M6 shooting experience perfectly with that wonderful window viewfinder.

 

Most of the bugs of the X100 that were listed here had been solved by latest firmware. The only regret of the X100 is that it should have been the camera Leica made....

[Mr_Jones]

I think Leica will make a similar camera to the X100 but with interchangeable lens, so the X100 will become the camera that everyone wishes had processing speed, decent manual focus and interchangeable lenses. Where as the X1 will still be highly portable and super IQ whilst not even entering into the rangefinder fray.

 

The X1 also has a viewfinder, albeit as an extra which as I tried to show can be just as useful once you know the camera well enough to not need electronic feedback from it.

 

I have yet to see images that prove the X100 doesn't loose out to the X1 on IQ, how is it on white balance? and it's certainly still too big in comparison.

 

Anyway, we keep rehashing the subject but this is a Leica forum so you can expect a bit of a struggle promoting your love for an alternative Fuji product.