Guest happytogger Posted November 18, 2011 Share #21 Posted November 18, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) In September this year I was unfortunate enough to have my Leica M8.2 + 4 lenses stolen. However my insurance company has coughed up and I have over £9k to spend on new equipment. My choice will be an M9P with the new 35mm Summilux which will eat up most of the money. My question to you is what would you buy for £9k. I would be interested to hear hour comments. Leica M3. I concur., even though Leica II & III are my personal favourites. M9 compared to M3 is a computer grotesquely overpriced. Just holding the bodies & using both side by side, looking through the viewfinders, pressing the shutter, easy to realise how cheap M9 is compared to M3. M3 is a life time camera which can be passed down generations. M9 is a computer, it will break down as computers do. M9 issues are well documented on this forum. In terms of photography using an M3 may take one photo a day or one a week or even one a month, yet that photo will have everything coming together, light, shade, angles, composition, perspective. M9 snap away as much as the SD card can hold (that is if the M9 isnt playing up with the SD card) maybe M9 may get a keeper out of a hundred or thousand. Aesthetically M3 had the elegance to have the front bare, whilst M9 with that red logo screams look at me look at me. Output wise, the best Bayer sensor as on the M9, M9p, upcoming M10 with its flat 1 layer will never have the verisimilitude, the way light interacts with the 3 layer that is film. Also as the technical people here can explain Bayer sensor calculate 2/3 of colour data & make calculations on 2/3 of how light is interacting adding to Bayer sensors lack of verisimilitude compared to film & its flatness compared to film. : M9 compared to M3 is as reading a Kindle, a book on an Ipad compared to a real book. If M9 was £3k then for what it is not compared to M3, it would be palatable. But at £7k (for a comparatively cheap computer). Ffordes right now have a double stroke M3 £549 M3 Chrome Body Only by Leica - Ffordes Photographic Red dot a single stroke M3 £399 http://www.reddotcameras.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=34_35&products_id=4060 (I would never buy any M3 from online auction). : If you really really want to go digital as well Epson RD-1 feels as a refined M8. Fuji XL10 with its Organic 3 layer sensor (closer to the properties of film than any other sensor including Foveon) tbc early 2012, release autumn winter 2012. Fujis Organic sensor needs no micro lenses just as film does not. It is not m-mount yet with such things adapters will be readily available. It will have auto focus & Fujis hybrid viewfinder evf & ovf. 3 Fuji lenses penciled in 18mm f2, 35mm f1.4, 60m f1.8 which on aps-h sensor crop 1.33 (same crop as M8) are approx 24mm f2, 45mm f1.4, 80mm f1.8. Expected to be around $1400. Compact : Fuji X10 when holding its machined aluminium body, looking through its bright sharp optical viewfinder, operating its manual metal zoom lens, pressing its quieter than M9 metal threaded shutter, X10 is closer to the spirit of M3 than any digital compact with the Leica badge including Digilux 2 bridge camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 Hi Guest happytogger, Take a look here What would you choose?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
phancj Posted November 18, 2011 Share #22 Posted November 18, 2011 The advertising continues ad infinitum.... Move from M8.2 with nice interchangeable lenses to a p&s fuji X10? Yeah, right.... or wait for the fuji organic whatever if it appears, when it appears whatever, right? better off waiting for the M10 or other brands, why fuji all the time? At least the perseverance is commendable. CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happytogger Posted November 18, 2011 Share #23 Posted November 18, 2011 The advertising continues ad infinitum.... Move from M8.2 with nice interchangeable lenses to a p&s fuji X10? Yeah, right.... or wait for the fuji organic whatever if it appears, when it appears whatever, right? better off waiting for the M10 or other brands, why fuji all the time? At least the perseverance is commendable. CJ This whole forum is an advert for Leica I am finding a few peoples close mindedness quite baffling. Appleman asked for views. Read my post I recommended M3, RD1, upcoming Fuji XL10, current X10. I will not recommend a grotesquely overpriced M9 compared to M3. I wlll recommend the best with a good price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted November 18, 2011 Share #24 Posted November 18, 2011 Maybe coz it is a leica forum? I find your fixation on the x10 equally baffling, considering the M8.2 and the x10 cannot be put on the same page, they are markedly different. That would be an example of "close-mindedness" on your part too. CJ We are all internet savvy here, so I would go to a fuji forum for fuji ads, and find out more info there. As this is a leica forum, many choose to come here to find out about leica stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happytogger Posted November 18, 2011 Share #25 Posted November 18, 2011 Maybe coz it is a leica forum? I find your fixation on the x10 equally baffling, considering the M8.2 and the x10 cannot be put on the same page, they are markedly different. That would be an example of "close-mindedness" on your part too. CJ We are all internet savvy here, so I would go to a fuji forum for fuji ads, and find out more info there. As this is a leica forum, many choose to come here to find out about leica stuff. 3/5 of my post is dedicated to M3. Then to complete the digital i included RD1. upcoming XL10, current X10. Appleman asked for opinions, i gave a balanced view on what is the best at the right price. It is clear you read what you wanted to from my post and made a close minded post. What you have done is hijacked this thread by having a go at me. These are just cameras, hardly anything for you or anyone to get bothered about. Im not responding to you anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted November 18, 2011 Share #26 Posted November 18, 2011 You should reread almost every of your posts recently, they range from lengthy advert style posts on the X10 or disguised ads where you attempt to be objective about M3,etc subsequently almost always end with an outright ad for the X10. It is pretty apparent really. In the same vein I could easily say that you hijack just about every thread to promote the X10, but whatever tickles your belly... I am entitled to have the opinion that your posts are far from "balanced" as you so claim... n fact, it is downright ludicrous to me that you suggested the X10 as an option even when Appleman asked exactly:"I have over £9k to spend on new equipment. My choice will be an M9P with the new 35mm Summilux which will eat up most of the money. My question to you is what would you buy for £9k. I would be interested to hear hour comments." Let see how many X10s he'll have to buy for that price haha.... Peace, CJ PS: Anyone posting something contrary to your views does not constitute close-mindedness, simply difference of opinion, please respect that.Pointing fingers at "close-mindedness" of others is simply pointing out your own extreme fixation. Also, I read somewhere recently a certain japanese brand has been employing trolls to push their wares on forums....interesting....but thats another matter altogether! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonheim Posted November 18, 2011 Share #27 Posted November 18, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) In September this year I was unfortunate enough to have my Leica M8.2 + 4 lenses stolen. However my insurance company has coughed up and I have over £9k to spend on new equipment. My choice will be an M9P with the new 35mm Summilux which will eat up most of the money. My question to you is what would you buy for £9k. I would be interested to hear hour comments. I would buy used. For the camera I would go for an M9. Find one close enough that you can test or that has enough warranty left for you to be comfortable. For lenses I would go for 35 cron ASPH, 50 cron, and 90 elmarit-m. M9 £4,000 35 £2,000 50 £1,000 90 £1,000 For a total of £8,000. The prices I have quoted are at the high end of used prices and should give you plenty of room for CLA should it be necessary. Personally, I would be more than happy with a kit like that. I could even be tempted to go for a film MP/M7 instead of the M9 - at least for a while Cheers, Knut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleman Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share #28 Posted November 18, 2011 Many thanks for all your comments. Not sure about DigitalPowerShots suggestion that I should buy a different kind of glass (a ring for the wife). I like ramosa's comment about buying a X100 (£850) for the interim, I have done some research and it seems a good choice. Recommended Cameras (what do you think of this guy). I also like the comparison to the digital M as "bubble gum", and yes, the M9 is very expensive when you compare to other camera bodies. Ecaton has suggested other camera and lens alternatives but I'm a Leica man through and through. Others have asked me to consider "used" but that is not an option for me except through a recognised dealer but they want their profit too. Also I want to stay digital as a darkroom is out of the question. So, at the moment I'm looking to buy the X100 for the interim and take up WDA's suggestion about visiting Leica in Mayfair and wait until there is lens stock available. Another option would be to buy the M9P now with the Cron 50mm f2 lens (both available) and wait for the new Lux 35mm 1.4 lens. That would put me back in business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted November 18, 2011 Share #29 Posted November 18, 2011 In which case, schedule a meeting at Leica Mayfair as soon as possible. Lenses appear without warning, so the sooner you register your interest the sooner you will get what you want. Good Luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleman Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share #30 Posted November 18, 2011 In which case, schedule a meeting at Leica Mayfair as soon as possible. Lenses appear without warning, so the sooner you register your interest the sooner you will get what you want. Good Luck I contacted Mayfair by email but,,,,,,,nothing. Their customer service is dreadful. I phoned and got through to a lady who passed me onto somebody else and they confirmed that they have the M9P and 50mm cron in stock. I went to order online, and you can't. So I emailed 3 times, nothing. Think I'll go back to Red Dot. Also, they don't have an up to date online stock list. It seems that everything has to be done over the phone. I'll try again tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happytogger Posted November 18, 2011 Share #31 Posted November 18, 2011 I like ramosa's comment about buying a X100 (£850) for the interim, I have done some research and it seems a good choice. Recommended Cameras (what do you think of this guy). So, at the moment I'm looking to buy the X100 for the interim The thing about the X100 and one main reason i did not recommend it is that some have suffered sticky aperture blades. Fuji have just very recently introduced a new lens assembly which according to users have thus far resolved this issue. I feel it would be worth perhaps checking with the retailer or possibly holding off a month or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happytogger Posted November 18, 2011 Share #32 Posted November 18, 2011 This may be a strange recommendation, yet for the interim the V-Lux1 Vario Elmarit 35 - 420mm F2.8 - F3.7 is imo unsurpassed, possibly the finest such lens put on a bridge camera, has the "Leica glow" (I still have the Panasonic version Fz50). At small print sizes where dof was deep i believe would find it difficult to tell the difference at base iso from M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted November 18, 2011 Share #33 Posted November 18, 2011 The M3 and indeed all the Leica film cameras are beautifully made and highly capable tools that will reward a lifetime's use. The trouble is the time, increasing difficulty, and cost of buying film and getting it processed and then scanned if you need a digital file -- and for professional purposes that's essential. Film is still rewarding for personal photography. And yes, as I have said elsewhere, film cameras are perfect for their purpose; digital is still evolving. All digital cameras will devalue -- the question is, will you get sufficient value out of them over a given time span? That's surely up to the individual. Compared with digital bodies, lenses are a timeless investment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted November 18, 2011 Share #34 Posted November 18, 2011 I contacted Mayfair by email but,,,,,,,nothing. Their customer service is dreadful. I phoned and got through to a lady who passed me onto somebody else and they confirmed that they have the M9P and 50mm cron in stock. I went to order online, and you can't. So I emailed 3 times, nothing. Think I'll go back to Red Dot. Also, they don't have an up to date online stock list. It seems that everything has to be done over the phone. I'll try again tomorrow. Sorry to hear about the attitude problem. My point was that a visit would allow you to try some demo lenses. However, a 50mm Summicron would be an excellent choice. A pity they make it so difficult for remote purchasers. Try Jonathan Harrison Harrison Cameras I have found him very helpful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted November 19, 2011 Share #35 Posted November 19, 2011 Appleman, I think sooner or later you're going to end up with a digital M, despite everything thats said and done and all the "interim" cameras you may buy, but IMHO there's no way that that "hunger" for great handling, superb lens and stellar IQ is going to be satiated by these "interim" cameras...you'll always end up wanting more. Not thta the cameras discussed here other than the M aret good, they are. But not in the same vein as the digital Ms. Do yourself the favor, but the M9P or the M9 and get it over with! It's not like you're going to struggle to purchase the M9, so just do it! Finding the M lenses will be a pain, though. May take a while to rebuild your collection... My two cents. CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted November 19, 2011 Share #36 Posted November 19, 2011 It is interesting, that nobody has asked for what purpose you need a camera. Leica Mdigital does not have live view and does not have an evf-connection. So experimenting with long lenses, macro, tilt/shift lenses, etc. wouldn't be possible. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happytogger Posted November 19, 2011 Share #37 Posted November 19, 2011 Ffordes have a number of Leica II & IIIs Screw Cameras Leitz Range - Ffordes Photographic Eg IIIC + 50mm F2 Summarit by Leica - Ffordes Photographic £299 M3 is the legend for bayonet M's, yet for me the II & III screws are my fave Leicas (the Russian Fed 1, II, III were based on). I wish i could say why the II & III feels so much more organic to me than that temperamental clunky computer M9. But it does. Even writing now something soulful is stirring inside me about the II & III. I remember a time when Leica said there was not going to be a digital M. There has only been the RD1, & digital Ms (RD-1 to me is as a refined digitalM). Yet this coming year there may well be Samsung's digital rangefinder style (with shutter dial and so forth) & ofcourse Fuji. They will have the capability to use long lenses & macro which the M9 cant do. And I can match Leica M9's output at base iso (& if not doing shallow dof) with Sigma DP1 & DP2 (due to their Foveon sensors). Perhaps just invest in M lenses (which are worth it) & travel the world a little with a film Leica & for convenience a digital camera form any manufacturer you can bond with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tietje Posted November 19, 2011 Share #38 Posted November 19, 2011 I'd choose the one that makes you feel good want pick it up and shoot, whatever it is. For me personally, my camera before last was a Panasonic G1 (which I still have and accepts Leica lenses BTW). A great camera, very efficient, takes nice shots, but did nothing for me as an experience, boring really. My Digilux 2. I love it, nice piece of design, takes fantastic pictures and great to use. I want to take pictures all the time just to get it out of its bag. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted November 20, 2011 Share #39 Posted November 20, 2011 3/5 of my post is dedicated to M3.Then to complete the digital i included RD1. upcoming XL10, current X10. Appleman asked for opinions, i gave a balanced view on what is the best at the right price. It is clear you read what you wanted to from my post and made a close minded post. What you have done is hijacked this thread by having a go at me. These are just cameras, hardly anything for you or anyone to get bothered about. Im not responding to you anymore. Apparently you responded with a nasty PM with insults and name calling. Like you said, these are only cameras we are discussing. Truly a man of your words. CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phancj Posted November 20, 2011 Share #40 Posted November 20, 2011 I contacted Mayfair by email but,,,,,,,nothing. Their customer service is dreadful. I phoned and got through to a lady who passed me onto somebody else and they confirmed that they have the M9P and 50mm cron in stock. I went to order online, and you can't. So I emailed 3 times, nothing. Think I'll go back to Red Dot. Also, they don't have an up to date online stock list. It seems that everything has to be done over the phone. I'll try again tomorrow. YOu should boycott suppliers with bad service. Bring your money somewhere else to a vendor that deserves your business. Often bad service can also be associated with dubious business practices, and you should be extra careful for something with this price tag. CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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